# Palin thinks the VP is in charge of the Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956 "2008-10-21T21:57:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/41 "2008-10-21T23:39:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Lyndon Johnson tried to run the Senate when he was Vice President. If it could be done, Johnson - who had just been a powerful Senate Majority Leader - was the one who’d have done it. But he found that once he was no longer an actual Senator, the real Senators regarded his leadership as merely symbolic. But Sarah Palin is a real American, a pro-American American and in her short time in the national spotlight, she has captured the hearts of all the true Bush die-hards **and** learned the Senate rules and traditions better than Lyndon Johnson. She is just that smart. She went to six colleges, dontcha know? She knows six times as much as those of us that only went to one college. BTW, The Daily Show interviewed the Mayor of Wasillia last night. The Mayor of Wasillia goes to meetings and writes checks. Alas (ka) we didn’t get to see the bordello style office that Palin redecorated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/42 "2008-10-21T23:43:46Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Aren’t you from NY? > > Doesn’t the person presiding over a body have the ability to control what bills get discussed? Or voted on? Or even choosing which speakers to recognize? All of which are tools used within the NY State Legislature by the majority leader in each house to keep control. > > You can do a lot to control a debate, discourse, or even a legislative body, simply with those powers you delineate. But the President of the Senate does not do these things, the Majority Leader does them for the Senate. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-11-14-congress-majority\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-11-14-congress-majority_x.htm) Recognizing speakers is a matter of parliamentary procedure: one for, the next against, etc. (usually) if a presiding officer refused to abide by parliamentary rules, there is an appeal process. I seriously doubt that the NY legislature deviates from some form of recognizing opposing speakers. More likely you are thinking that speakers can only speak about matters set on the agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/43 "2008-10-21T23:53:38Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Aren’t you from NY? No. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t the person presiding over a body have the ability to control what bills get discussed? Not in the US Senate. > [@](#): > > Or voted on? Not in the US Senate. > [@](#): > > Or even choosing which speakers to recognize? Not in the US Senate. > [@](#): > > All of which are tools used within the NY State Legislature by the majority leader in each house to keep control. > > You can do a lot to control a debate, discourse, or even a legislative body, simply with those powers you delineate. Yes you can, if you are the US Senate Majority Leader. Not the Vice President. Beyond casting tie breaking vote, he cannot do anything not specifically delegated to him by the [Rules of the Senate](http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/). [Opening and closing the session](http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule04.php)and [ruling on points of order](http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule20.php)are duties granted the President of the Senate by the Rules, and it can be withdrawn by changing the rules. The Vice President has no inherent power to do anything beyond vote in case of a tie. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/44 "2008-10-22T00:45:18Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Absolutely. He should have picked Michele Bachmann. (Oh, God, what would that have been like?) This brings up an interesting philosophical question–is it worse for a drowning man to clutch at a fifty pound anchor or a hundred pound anchor? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I wonder why Cheney never does that, since he seems to want to do everything else. I have it on reliable authority he bursts into flames when exposed to sunlight, and even if he could get around that the prayer they say at the beginning of the session would have the same effect. Probably for the best, really. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/45 "2008-10-22T01:00:08Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > But the President of the Senate does not do these things, the Majority Leader does them for the Senate. What does the President Pro Tempore do? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/46 "2008-10-22T01:03:07Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > BTW, The Daily Show interviewed the Mayor of Wasillia last night. The Mayor of Wasilla goes to meetings and writes checks. Alas (ka) we didn’t get to see the bordello style office that Palin redecorated. And despite Wasilla not having a fire department or a school system, she thinks she’s qualified to be Vice President. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/47 "2008-10-22T01:10:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nonsense. Then why use the word “preside?” Why not simply say, “The Vice-President shall vote in the Senate in case of a tie.” No, if “preside” meant “vote in case of a tie” then they wouldn’t have said both things. And the word “preside” had at the time a perfectly well-understood meaning in parliamentary procedure, which further shows that the functions being given to the VP were well-understood. Yes, it’s effectively the equal of the Speaker of the House in a parliamentary system, and has just as much actual power. Personally, I’d be delighted to see her wander into the Senate and start throwing her weight around. The reaction of 100 Senators to that would be one of the things that keeps politics amusing. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/48 "2008-10-22T01:30:23Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Personally, I’d be delighted to see her wander into the Senate and start throwing her weight around. The reaction of 100 Senators to that would be one of the things that keeps politics amusing. Well, if it’s amusing you want, let’s all move to Alaska next year, then in 2010, send Sarah to the Senate as a Senator. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/49 "2008-10-22T01:38:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, if it’s amusing you want, let’s all move to Alaska next year, then in 2010, send Sarah to the Senate as a Senator. Doesn’t anything about politics amuse you? I mean, sheesh, given the hypothetical that McCain and Palin are elected, wouldn’t the Senate’s reaction to Palin marching in with an “I’m in charge here, bucky,” attitude amuse you? _shrug_ maybe it’s just me ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/50 "2008-10-22T01:41:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sarah Palin’s statement is accurate and correct. Other than the inconvenient part (for you), which is that she isn’t and you aren’t willing to let admit she’s wrong. Fucking dumb ass ignorant political apologists are about the worst form of ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/51 "2008-10-22T02:05:28Z")
> [@Sarah Palin](#): > > Q: Brandon Garcia wants to know, “What does the Vice President do?” > > PALIN: That’s a great question Brandon, and a Vice President has a really great job because not only are they there to support the Presidents’ agenda, they’re like the team member, the teammate to that President, but also they’re in charge of the United States Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom and it’s a great job and I look forward to having that job. > > (full quote from [here](http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=16792)) 😕 Was that really the best answer she could think of to the question “What does the Vice President do?”? Leaving aside the issue of whether and in what way “presides over” can be interpreted to mean “in charge of”, it seems to me that this response is completely off target when it comes to conveying (even to a third grader) any real sense of what the Vice President’s job is about. The real power of the VP job, such as it is if it has any, as other posters have pointed out, is via the executive branch, and that’s the part she should have explained. (Is an eight-year-old supposed to know what “support the President’s agenda” means?) A sensible (if perhaps too optimistic) answer would have been something like “The Vice President works closely with the President to make decisions in the Executive Branch. They also sometimes meet with leaders of other countries as the President’s representative. They’re kind of like the President’s co-pilot, helping them get the job done.”) Focusing on the VP’s nominal leadership of the Senate, and suggesting that that’s the primary role in which the VP can “make a lot of good policy changes”, does indeed come across as rather silly and uninformed. I don’t infer from that statement that Palin is literally ignorant of what the VP’s actual role is (although to be fair, she was the first one to attribute that ignorance to herself), but she certainly did a piss-poor job of explaining it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/52 "2008-10-22T02:33:20Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > It’s a fucking stupid, typical of you, answer. You love to use your knowledge of the law and your debating abilities to ignore the obvious fucking fact that in the history of the Vice Presidency, it has never, EVER been exercised in that way. > > NOT ONCE. Wow. Just… wow. You know, you’d think you’d do a little bit of research before making such a sweeping declaration. Not once, huh? Genius, up until the 1960s, it was more likely than not that the VP would preside on the majority of days the Senate was in session. John Adams was known for his particularly activist use of the role. Remember the Nullification Crisis and Calhoun’s use of the presidency of the senate to push through Clay’s Compromise Tariff of 1833? How about Dawes and the McNary-Haugen farm relief bill? Hint: the world did not begin in 1964. > [@](#): > > I can’t tell you why that is in the Constitution, but I can tell you that I’m pretty sure that no Vice President has used it in any situation of any import. Are you even a high-school graduate? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/53 "2008-10-22T02:42:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not in the US Senate. > > Yes you can, if you are the US Senate Majority Leader. Not the Vice President. Beyond casting tie breaking vote, he cannot do anything not specifically delegated to him by the [Rules of the Senate](http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/). [Opening and closing the session](http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule04.php)and [ruling on points of order](http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule20.php)are duties granted the President of the Senate by the Rules, and it can be withdrawn by changing the rules. The Vice President has no inherent power to do anything beyond vote in case of a tie. No. That would eviscerate the plain meaning of the word “preside.” No serious legal scholar would endorse that cockamamie theory. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/54 "2008-10-22T02:44:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What does the President Pro Tempore do? I`m a Canadian, so I wasn`t sure what they do either and I looked it up on [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_pro_tempore_of_the_United_States_Senate) : > [@](#): > > The President pro tempore is an office of the Senate mandated by Article I, section 3 of the Constitution. Although the position is in some ways equivalent to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, the powers of the President pro tempore are far more limited. In the Senate, most power rests with party leaders and individual senators. But as the chamber’s presiding officer in the absence of the Vice President, the President pro tempore is authorized to perform certain duties, including ruling on points of order. Additionally, the President pro tempore is one of the two authorities to whom declarations of presidential inability or of ability to resume the presidency must be transmitted under the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. (The Speaker of the House is the other.) The President pro tempore is third in the line of presidential succession, following the Vice President and the Speaker of the House. > [@](#): > > The President pro tempore, just like the Vice President, over time has ceased presiding over the Senate on a daily basis, owing to the mundane nature of the position. Furthermore, as the President pro tempore is now usually the most senior senator of the majority party, he or she most likely also chairs a major Senate committee, along with other duties this status entails. Therefore, the President pro tempore has less time now than in the past to preside daily over the Senate. Instead, any junior senator can be designated acting President pro tempore to preside over the Senate on a daily basis. This allows junior senators to learn proper parliamentary procedure. Regarding [points of order and their overturning by the Senate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_order): > [@](#): > > In the United States Senate, the chair’s ruling may be appealed by any Senator. The Senate votes on the appeal and the chair has been frequently overturned. Points of order with regard to the Budget Act or annual budget resolution may be waived by 3/5 of the Senate’s entire membership. Rule XVI, which prohibits normal legislation in appropriations legislation, may be waived by 2/3 of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/55 "2008-10-22T02:48:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wait a second. > > Dick Cheney is widely reviled around here because, according to the prevailing wisdom, he’s been responsible for a lot of policy changes. (Not good ones, I expect the chorus would insist, but certainly substantial ones). > > So why is Palin’s view that the VP can get in and help make policy changes a wrong one? His impact was through the president. He did not run the senate. He ran Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/56 "2008-10-22T02:55:42Z")
Whatever **Bricker** , you’re clearly wrong here. The VP has never used his position to exercise power except for the tie-breaking vote. The VP power to “preside” over the Senate has never been used to change an outcome of any issue. The power has not been exercised in that sense. You were right in that it would have been the route for Bush to go for the “nuclear” option but he didn’t do it because it’s never been done before. You can argue that it might be attempted, but it’s far from a guaranteed right. The definition of “presiding” would have to be determined. The current interpretation of that definition according to 200 years of Senate tradition imply that the VP has little power in “presiding” For Palin to pretend that she would be able to buck 200 years of tradition is ridiculous, and you can insult me all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that she didn’t know what the fuck she was talking about. And quit acting like the VP casting a tie-breaker is some kind of way to win the argument. She said that she’d be the leader of the Senate. This is only true in a useless ceremonial sense. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/57 "2008-10-22T03:02:48Z")
Hey liberal doper douchebags, with all of the stuff to already not like about Palin, why are you stretching so much for even more stuff? Jesus christ! Also, I’m sure when third graders ask you questions you give them full and complete answers that would get full credit in a college course on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/58 "2008-10-22T03:06:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Simply that: to preside. > > Now, the Constitution does not specify precisely what “to preside” means. But it has an ordinary meaning in parliamentary practice – and in fact, until the 1960s, the VP did normally preside over the Senate daily. This meant ruling on points of order, recognizing speakers, gavelling sessions open and closed – what a presiding officer does. > > The Senate can’t remove that role by internal rule; it’s a Constitutional role. I know it confuses you guys to discuss a Constitutional provision that’s actually printed in ink, on the paper, instead of found wafting in the penumbras and emanations of the document, but there it is. To preside means to sit as chair, and to act in accordance with the rules for the body – which, as has been noted, the **Senate** , not the Vice President acting unilaterally, has the right to adopt. While it might be reasonable to assume that a presiding officer will preside in accordance with traditional standards of parliamentary procedure, that assumption is not spelled out in the Constitution. At most it might be considered, uh, what do you call it?, oh yeah, an emanation or a penumbra. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/59 "2008-10-22T03:07:02Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Therefore, the President pro tempore has less time now than in the past to preside daily over the Senate. Instead, any junior senator can be designated acting President pro tempore to preside over the Senate on a daily basis. This allows junior senators to learn proper parliamentary procedure. Maybe so, but “acting President pro tempore” has got to be the lamest title for a nationally important job **ever.** ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956/60 "2008-10-22T03:10:40Z")
And, having rattled **Bricker** ’s chain in the previous post, let me supplement his point in #52 by asking if people know where Harry Truman was when he became President? Presiding over the Senate as Vice President [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-thinks-the-vp-is-in-charge-of-the-senate/468956.md?page=4)