# Palin: To Criticize Me Is To Deny My Free Speech Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 31, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473 "2008-10-31T18:07:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/41 "2008-10-31T19:53:58Z")
Wait a minute — confused brain. The right-wing talk jockeys are _afraid_ that the Fairness Doctrine will take them off the air? But I thought their dogma was that the Whole Mainstream Media was 99% lib’rul anyway. Wouldn’t fairness mean _more_ conservative views in the media? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/42 "2008-10-31T19:57:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But, given that the issue raised initially here was that of Palin’s statement, shouldn’t you be asking what _her_ beliefs about the Fairness Doctrine, and government control of the media more generally, are? > > Because if she would not support the Fairness Doctrine (and i have a hunch that she would not), then isn’t it a bit hypocritical of her to be wailing about the the media’s criticism of her, and trying to connect it to first amendment issues?Absolutely. Yes, it is, and this is why I have no particular interest in defending Palin’s comment, since it betrays a clear lack of understanding of First Amendment law. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/43 "2008-10-31T20:06:52Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Wait a minute — confused brain. > > The right-wing talk jockeys are _afraid_ that the Fairness Doctrine will take them off the air? > > But I thought their dogma was that the Whole Mainstream Media was 99% lib’rul anyway. Wouldn’t fairness mean _more_ conservative views in the media? Well, what you have to remember is that complaining about media fairness is only useful to the right-wing shock-jocks as long as it helps them maintain their own audience. In fact, i think that the last thing that folks like Limbaugh want is a dramatic increase in conservative views in the mainstream media, because that would probably dilute their own audiences. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/44 "2008-10-31T20:06:58Z")
I don’t know why every political thread has to include a dig at \*\*Bricker \*\*for allegedly being a shill for the Republicans. He is a very fair and honest poster, and (gasp!) has been known to change his mind in the face of evidence contrary to his viewpoint. Frankly, I’m getting pretty fucking sick of my fellow liberal posters making jackasses of themselves falling all over each other to see who can be the biggest dick to the conservatives on this board. I suspect that if Obama wins, the insufferability we are now seeing is going to be transformed into full-blown psychotic assholishness. Boy, I can’t wait. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/45 "2008-10-31T20:09:37Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > I don’t know why every political thread has to include a dig at \*\*Bricker \*\*for allegedly being a shill for the Republicans. He is a very fair and honest poster, and (gasp!) has been known to change his mind in the face of evidence contrary to his viewpoint. Frankly, I’m getting pretty fucking sick of my fellow liberal posters making jackasses of themselves falling all over each other to see who can be the biggest dick to the conservatives on this board. I suspect that if Obama wins, the insufferability we are now seeing is going to be transformed into full-blown psychotic assholishness. Boy, I can’t wait. :rolleyes: Quit trying to infringe my free speech, Fucker. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/46 "2008-10-31T20:14:21Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I don’t think Palin was terribly precise by talking about First Amendment rights here - How dare you criticize Palin for being imprecise. That could have a chilling effect on her future expression! Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/47 "2008-10-31T20:21:45Z")
> [@S&I](#): > > [Bricker] is a very fair and honest poster, and (gasp!) has been known to change his mind in the face of evidence contrary to his viewpoint. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, on the other hand, he just digs himself into his lawyer bunker and stays there for the duration, undeterred by shot or shell of fact or truth. And he makes with the snarkastic digs a good deal himself, as frinstance in his recent thread about ACORN submitting bogus voter registrations, which was not the high point of his posting history. (Not that my response to it was the high point of mine either, admittedly.) I do think that one reason **Bricker** ’s foibles grate so on many posters is that, as you note, he **can** be very fair and honest, and even sometimes sets a real standard for the rest of us to aspire to in that regard. Other times, not so much. You’re never quite sure which **Bricker** you’re going to get, which is exasperating. If he were just a predictable right-wing troll, he wouldn’t be taken so seriously, and his lapses wouldn’t bother people so much. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/48 "2008-10-31T20:24:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I do think that one reason **Bricker** ’s foibles grate so on many posters is that, as you note, he **can** be very fair and honest, and even sometimes sets a real standard for the rest of us to aspire to in that regard. Other times, not so much. You’re never quite sure which **Bricker** you’re going to get, which is exasperating. If he were just a predictable right-wing troll, he wouldn’t be taken so seriously, and his lapses wouldn’t bother people so much. That’s true enough, but to take shots at him for what he supposedly will say in a thread he has not even responded to seems a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/49 "2008-10-31T20:26:15Z")
“It’s perfectly legal!” Sloooooowly, I turned…inch by inch, step by step… ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/50 "2008-10-31T20:27:18Z")
Back to the topic at hand. Salon’s Glen Greenwald said it best: > [@](#): > > If anything, Palin has this exactly backwards, since one thing that the First Amendment does actually guarantee is a free press. Thus, when the press criticizes a political candidate and a Governor such as Palin, that is a classic example of First Amendment rights being exercised, not abridged. > > This isn’t only about profound ignorance regarding our basic liberties, though it is obviously that. Palin here is also giving voice here to the standard right-wing grievance instinct: that it’s inherently unfair when they’re criticized. And now, apparently, it’s even unconstitutional. > > According to Palin, what the Founders intended with the First Amendment was that political candidates for the most powerful offices in the country and Governors of states would be free to say whatever they want without being criticized in the newspapers. The First Amendment was meant to ensure that powerful political officials would not be “attacked” in the papers. It is [sic] even possible to imagine more breathaking ignorance from someone holding high office and running for even higher office? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/51 "2008-10-31T20:30:50Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Quit trying to infringe my free speech, Fucker. > [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > How dare you criticize Palin for being imprecise. That could have a chilling effect on her future expression! Why do you hate America? I see where this is heading: we all need our own private message board, where we can say what we like, and never have to suffer from any criticism, because anyone disagreeing with us infringes on our rights. So let’s just close down the SDMB, for being too confusing with its variety of opinions, and let’s all sit in our own corners. And let Sarah Palin go back to Wasilla, where she can talk to the moose, which (being very smart animals) will never dare criticise her. Debate is far too confusing, and cannot be what th founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/52 "2008-10-31T20:31:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, it is, and this is why I have no particular interest in defending Palin’s comment, since it betrays a clear lack of understanding of First Amendment law. And then … consider how many people are willing to cast their votes to put her a heartbeat away … ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/53 "2008-10-31T20:34:36Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I see where this is heading: we all need our own private message board, where we can say what we like, and never have to suffer from any criticism, because anyone disagreeing with us infringes on our rights. So let’s just close down the SDMB, for being too confusing with its variety of opinions, and let’s all sit in our own corners. And let Sarah Palin go back to Wasilla, where she can talk to the moose, which (being very smart animals) will never dare criticise her. Debate is far too confusing, and cannot be what th founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the First Amendment. I knew it was a mistake not to use a smiley… IT WAS SARCASM, look it up. Or I don’t know, read the thread… ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/54 "2008-10-31T20:38:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do you see any First Amendment issues wafting around that scenario? They waft more than Forest Gump’s feather. The inside of the mall is privately owned. As the owner, I get to decide what is or isn’t acceptable in the premises (within the bounds of the law). I can say “all peace protests are acceptable. All calls for war are banned!” and not be infringing on anyone’s First Amendment rights. Patrons, likewise, have the right to determine I’m being hypocritical, or just an ass, and not shop in my mall. I’m a huge supporter of Free Speech and I have no problems with rude mall owners. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/55 "2008-10-31T20:40:04Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > I knew it was a mistake not to use a smiley… > > IT WAS SARCASM, look it up. Or I don’t know, read the thread… Of course it was sarcasm, as was my post. Did you really think I’d close down the SDMB? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/56 "2008-10-31T20:41:45Z")
Damn that pesky Gotcha Bill of Rights! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/57 "2008-10-31T20:41:47Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Of course it was sarcasm, as was my post. Did you really think I’d close down the SDMB? That is hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/58 "2008-10-31T20:45:48Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > That is hyperbole. Which excludes sarcasm why? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/59 "2008-10-31T20:48:23Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Which excludes sarcasm why? Because it makes baby jesus cry? I guess I just don’t get Giles’ point when quoting me. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473/60 "2008-10-31T20:55:11Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > I guess I just don’t get Giles’ point when quoting me. He knows better than anyone, but it seemed to me that he used it as a jumping off point to further satirize Palin. “I see where this is heading” was a clue for me. I could be wrong, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-to-criticize-me-is-to-deny-my-free-speech-rights/470473.md?page=4)