# Palins Divorce **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000 "2009-08-01T20:54:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/341 "2009-08-11T23:57:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Discussions here din’t reject the idea out of hand, did they? Was there sufficient evidence to dismiss it out of hand? Like you say, “Why not address each story on its merits? Doesn’t that seem a safer, and fairer, course?” ISTM that that’s what we were doing. Like I said earlier, ISTM that, with respect to Palin, you are expecting us not to _consider_ possibilities that may not be likely, but for which an argument can be made. That seems antithetical to the ethic of this board. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/342 "2009-08-12T00:01:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except Trig wasn’t due yet; the delivery wasn’t imminent. I’m not gonna dig it up again, but according to her own words, _she_ believed it was. And wasn’t it her husband who said that the point of that rapid-fire return trip was to keep Trig from being born down here in the lower 48? > [@](#): > > At the end of the day, I have to say that while I might have made a different decsion (or, more accurately, advised my wife to make a different decision) I can’t call “unreasonable” an act which the woman’s own, personal physician called “not unreasonable.” T%hat’s nice. At what point in the debate did we have access to this opinion from her personal physician? I could be wrong, but I don’t recall its surfacing during the Babygate debates. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/343 "2009-08-12T02:05:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > That’s nice. At what point in the debate did we have access to this opinion from her personal physician? I could be wrong, but I don’t recall its surfacing during the Babygate debates. As I recall, it came in before the new server went online, but after when most of us stopped giving a shit. And I’m too lazy to look up her exact words, but I recall that they scanned precisely as if the MD would have argued strenuously against the flight, but all’s well that ends well, and I’m not gonna fuck with someone who may be our next vice president. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/344 "2009-08-12T02:08:55Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And wasn’t it her husband who said that the point of that rapid-fire return trip was to keep Trig from being born down here in the lower 48? Todd was keeping an eye on where his kid was born in case the pending “not all of your children were born in Alaska” clause in the Alaskan national constitution might stymie Sarah’s bid for the Alaskan presidency. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/345 "2009-08-12T12:47:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Discussions here din’t reject the idea out of hand, did they? Cite for their being any discussions here that in any way took it seriously? And we still need a cite for any of the bad ol’ Main Stream Media reporting it even to comment upon its silliness, so we aren’t left thinking you just blew another transparent attempt at False Equivalence. > [@](#): > > So now Palin is responsible for what Steve Doocy said?? As soon as she adopted it for her very own, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/346 "2009-08-12T14:33:43Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > If I may be pompous for a moment, my participation in the SDMB has led me to formulate a theory about message boards and similar conversational media, which is that when someone is in an environment in which the overhwleming majority disagrees with him, and a fringe of that majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways; that person tends to conflate the two and start feeling that the overwhelming majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways. > > Yes, the SDMB is heavily unbalanced towards the political left, so most SDMBers disagree with, and are opposed to, Sarah Palin. People being people, that means that most SDMBers, even ones who are genuinely intellectually honest and well-meaning, are predisposed to believe bad things about her, as opposed to Obama. And people being people, there are a fringe of SDMBers (cough, Der Trihs, cough) who are not only predisposed to believe bad things about her, but will do so with no evidence at all, in rude ways, etc. But the vast majority of SDMB leftists are not without reason. Look at the original topic of this thread. So there was a rumor that Palin might get divorced. How many posters took the rumor as face value gospel truth? How many said something like “if this is true, …”? The overall reaction was “if it’s true, kinda serves her right, because we don’t like her, but it’s just a rumor at this point.” > As for the issue you seem to find most damning, which (I believe) is the Trig-is-Sarah’s-baby rumor, there’s an extraordinarily important point which you keep ignoring: Suppose, for a moment, that the rumor were true. What would that say about Sarah Palin? Something negative? On the contrary, I’d argue that while such a factoid (Sarah Palin’s son is actually her grandson!) is obviously weird and titillating, it would actually be an incredibly noble act, one that would involve huge amounts of sacrifice on her part to better the lives of both her daughter and her grandson. In fact, the most salacious part of the whole thing would be the fact that it would involve her teenage daughter getting pregnant. Which, ironically, actually happened anyhow. > So that rumor appeared, there was no reason to immediately dismiss it as implausible, so we discussed it for a while, tossed around some reasons why it might be true and might not, and it eventually died away. At no point was there a consensus among SDMB leftists that it was true. Nor were there lots of posts where Palin was mentioned in other contexts and people responded by bringing up the Trig issue. Nor, as far as I know, was the SDMB the flash point by which the rumor spread around the world. > > Would SDMB leftists have condemned it if some major news organization had reported the rumor as fact, or even likely; or had been involved in actively spreading it? Or if some senator had introduced a bill, claiming it wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular, which would require all VP noms to provide birth certificates for all their children and grandchildren? I’d like to think so, but we’ll never know, because none of those things happened. Most likely, some would and some wouldn’t, because there are no monolithic Usual Suspects. > So, to sum up… bearing in mind that people are people and have foibles and aren’t totally objective at all times… what precisely was so ridiculous about how the SDMB reacted to that rumor and/or the divorce rumor? I have quoted your entire post, because it is a fucking awesome post. You raise a series of devastingly valid points. This, especially: _…when someone is in an environment in which the overhwleming majority disagrees with him, and a fringe of that majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways; that person tends to conflate the two and start feeling that the overwhelming majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways…_ is, as I reflect on it, is probably exactly what’s going on. I spoke of the “tone” here, without quoting specific posts, and as I think about what you’ve said here I think that this phenomenon is exactly what’s created that impression for me. Outstanding insight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/347 "2009-08-12T14:36:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I spoke of the “tone” here, without quoting specific posts Which is what makes your complaint indistinguishable from something you yanked out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/348 "2009-08-12T14:39:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Which is what makes your complaint indistinguishable from something you yanked out of your ass. :smack: Jesus goddamn Christ, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/349 "2009-08-12T14:41:22Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > If I may be pompous for a moment, my participation in the SDMB has led me to formulate a theory about message boards and similar conversational media, which is that when someone is in an environment in which the overhwleming majority disagrees with him, and a fringe of that majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways; that person tends to conflate the two and start feeling that the overwhelming majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways. This applies to the majority, too. Certainly **Bricker** gets a lot of undeserved flak because he’s often arguing the same side of a debate as [insert names of certain conservative posters], notwithstanding the fact that he rarely, if ever, stoops to the sort of tactics which makes [those guys] deserving of flak. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/350 "2009-08-12T14:46:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Certainly **Bricker** gets a lot of undeserved flak because he’s often arguing the same side of a debate as [insert names of certain conservative posters], notwithstanding the fact that he rarely, if ever, stoops to the sort of tactics which makes [those guys] deserving of flak. The tactics he typically uses instead are less childish but just as dishonest. Please consider that a great deal of the flak he gets is because of that. **Frylock** , care to elaborate? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/351 "2009-08-12T14:54:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The tactics he typically uses instead are less childish but just as dishonest. Please consider that a great deal of the flak he gets is because of that. The tactic he typically uses is reasoned debate. Would I like it if he provided a few more citations? Sure, but that’s hardly “dishonest”. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/352 "2009-08-12T15:26:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The tactics he typically uses instead are less childish but just as dishonest. Please consider that a great deal of the flak he gets is because of that. > > **Frylock** , care to elaborate? :dubious: I guess. **Bricker** ’s comment acknowledged that he might have been in error in thinking there was a “tone” in the responses he’s recieving. He was being somewhat conciliatory. And you answered by insulting him. That’s assinine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/353 "2009-08-12T16:08:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The tactic he typically uses is reasoned debate. With generous use of false equivalencies, tu quoques, excluded middles, filtered facts, and general weaseling. But he’s awfully polite about it, sure. And so was **december**. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/354 "2009-08-12T16:26:54Z")
Understand that Elvis has a very low tolerance for board improprieties not committed by himself. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/355 "2009-08-12T16:56:14Z")
If you know of any other kind, kindly so demonstrate. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/356 "2009-08-12T17:15:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > At this point, I don’t even know what the fight is over in this thread. Sara Palin secretly flew to Kenya to have Trig but won’t show anyone his real birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/357 "2009-08-12T17:28:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you know of any other kind, kindly so demonstrate. :rolleyes: I will not demontrate, but I can confirm that I have seen board improprieties not committed by you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/358 "2009-08-12T20:38:45Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Sara Palin secretly flew to Kenya to have Trig but won’t show anyone his real birth certificate. Ah. Happenin’ place, that Kenya, what with all the Palins and the Obamas and the Hawkings running about, having kids, deluding the American people. ---
**Author:** ![CRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRich)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/359 "2009-08-12T22:09:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have quoted your entire post, because it is a fucking awesome post. > > You raise a series of devastingly valid points. This, especially: _…when someone is in an environment in which the overhwleming majority disagrees with him, and a fringe of that majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways; that person tends to conflate the two and start feeling that the overwhelming majority disagrees with him in unreasonable, rude, blindly partisan ways…_ is, as I reflect on it, is probably exactly what’s going on. I spoke of the “tone” here, without quoting specific posts, and as I think about what you’ve said here I think that this phenomenon is exactly what’s created that impression for me. > > Outstanding insight. Thank you. I wish all of my conservative friends and co-workers would be as reasonable as this. I appreciate that we all bring our own ideas of the “right” way to do things to the table and I have always liked hearing conservatives’ reasoned debate. Why can’t we have more of this and less of the Death Squads and Re-Education Camp crap? The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same–I just miss the days when we could discuss what’s going on in the world without one party screaming that the world is coming to an end. Thank you for a thoughtful and reasonable response to a thoughtful and reasonable post. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000/360 "2009-08-13T00:12:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I thought the story that she was Trig’s grandmother was possible and completely unscandalous if true. How is that not scandalous? Edit: (Not that I think or ever thought it was true.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-divorce/505000.md?page=19)