# Palin's it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someone's-misspeaking hypocrisy. Oh, and she is a liar, too. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043 "2010-11-27T03:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/81 "2010-11-30T12:24:37Z")
Is there another politician I don’t know of, or do you mean Mike Huckabee? And, anyways, my evangelical friends are gradually seeing Palin as a hypocrite. I think they were loathe to do so with that whole “Judge not lest ye be judged” proclamation. Either that, or they were blinded by the idea of having one of their own in a possible leadership position. And then there’s the fact that 90% of the evangelicals I know are hypocrites themselves. It’s Southern Baptist country 'round here–“once saved always saved” and “everyone makes mistakes” are rallying cries. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/82 "2010-12-02T05:16:20Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I used to be a teenage girl. I’m pretty fucking sure I wouldn’t have behaved like that, and neither would most of my friends. While there certainly are poorly behaved kids, in my experience, the cruelest age group is around age 11-13. > > By the time you’re sixteen, you should know better than that. At age 16, you’re a junior in high school, you’re thinking of college, you’re responsible enough to be able to drive. If your parents have raised you right, you don’t go around calling people fat faggots at all, let alone in public. > > And if you do, your parents should punish you, not defend you, because that’s terrible and immature behavior. > [@tumbleddown](#): > > A pair of teenage girls raised in an atmosphere where intolerance and hateful language (though perhaps not outright slurs) are a part of the regular discourse, well, to quote their mother, you betcha. > > A pair of teenage girls raised in a home where they’re taught Christian ideals like “do unto others” and actually held to that standard, like I was (raised in the same denomination of the Heath family, Sarah’s parents, etc.) absofreakinlutely not. > > And that’s what’s notable. Sarah claims to be an uberChristian, and has the unflagging support of the evangelicals for standing up against “godless” ideas like equality for minorities and women having autonomy over their own bodies. But that falls apart not in the broad behavior of Bristol getting pregnant (I recall in our evangelical megachurch that _visibly_ happened about once a year, who knows how many girls terminated pregnancies) or Willow getting busted at a high school house party that got out of control, but in their attitudes, in their language, not just the kids, but Sarah herself. > > Much as a I loathe him and his holier than thou thing, compare and contrast evangelical Tim Huckabee with Sarah Palin. The same religiously influenced prejudices are there, but in Huckabee you don’t have the coarseness, you don’t have the selfishness, you don’t have reporters being called bastards (even when they’ve said fairly bastardly things about him) and so on. > > Sarah, to get all down into the evangelical parlance, talks the talk – sometimes – but she’s not walking the walk, and somehow, she’s getting a pass for it because she talks about lovin’ God and lovin’ this great nation of ours as if that’s the heart of the gospel. Someone’s gonna have to explain that one to me, but my former friends in the evangelical set are waaaay too toxic in discussions of politics for me to ask any of them. I don’t know how old you guys are, how long it is since you were kids, but I was a teenager not too long ago, and terms like “faggot”, “jew”, “bender”, “queer”, “retard” were _absolutely standard_. So standard that kids who didn’t use these words (and I can only think of a couple) stood out, not the other way around. This was in a middle-class liberal part of the world as well, not some trailer park full of redneck racists. Now I think Sarah Palin is deserving of every bit of stick she gets, but her teenage daughters shouldn’t be held up to any higher standard than any other teenagers. I don’t think any child’s behaviour should be judged too harshly, as there is still plenty of time for them to learn. At the age of sixteen girls can still be very immature, driven by popularity and peer pressure rather than morals and decency. (I’m a guy, and I cringe when I think of some of the things I did when I was sixteen.) By mid-twenties, the majority have evolved into decent, thoughtful people. When I was in school, the vast majority of the time when someone used a term like “faggot”, they were not implying that the person was gay. “Fat” was much less common - you didn’t call a fat person fat unless they _really_ pissed you off, and perhaps not even then. Used in the way they were in my school, and the way the Palin girls seem to be using them, these words are not “hate speech”; rather generic insults. If someone was being overly cheap or stingy, they would be referred to as a “scabby Jew”. The exception being of course, that if someone was Jewish, you didn’t ever call _that_ person a scabby Jew. It was fine to call a skinny person a fat bastard, or a straight person a flaming queer, or a non-retarded person a retard. Most of this was banter between peers, and anything that really cut deep (like calling a fat person fat) was rarely done. If you’re going to judge these girls over a slagging match among peers, you have to hold all other teenagers up to the same standard. I wouldn’t advise this, unless you want to lose faith in humanity when you realise that the vast majority of kids were not “raised right” either. On the other hand, it is hard to find fault with anything that causes Sarah Palin’s image to be tarnished further, and, for the record, I think it’s overwhelmingly likely that the kids _weren’t_ in fact raised right. But let’s give them a chance, after all, they’ve had to spend their lives with a semi-literate grizzly bear for a mother. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/83 "2010-12-02T05:33:04Z")
> [@carm](#): > > When I was in school, the vast majority of the time when someone used a term like “faggot”, they were not implying that the person was gay. “Fat” was much less common - you didn’t call a fat person fat unless they _really_ pissed you off, and perhaps not even then. Used in the way they were in my school, and the way the Palin girls seem to be using them, these words are not “hate speech”; rather generic insults. Supposing we accept that, the next question is what did someone do to provoke Willow; to get her so _really_ pissed off that she felt the need to use that insult? He said he didn’t like her mother’s TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/84 "2010-12-02T05:48:00Z")
Carm, dollars to donuts I was a teenager later than you and I can tell you for a fact that no one in my high school or circle of friends ever used jew or bender as a slur. In fact the only one that I would say was common currency with any certainty was retard which is nothing to brag about but still. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/85 "2010-12-02T06:43:05Z")
> [@carm](#): > > I don’t know how old you guys are, how long it is since you were kids, but I was a teenager not too long ago, and terms like “faggot”, “jew”, “bender”, “queer”, “retard” were _absolutely standard_. So standard that kids who didn’t use these words (and I can only think of a couple) stood out, not the other way around. This was in a middle-class liberal part of the world as well, not some trailer park full of redneck racists . . . At the age of sixteen girls can still be very immature, driven by popularity and peer pressure rather than morals and decency. (I’m a guy, and I cringe when I think of some of the things I did when I was sixteen.) By mid-twenties, the majority have evolved into decent, thoughtful people. Well, Bristol is 20, and also there’s a huge difference between thinking something or maybe saying it among friends and actually saying it to someone’s face or posting it on someone’s Facebook. I went to school with some bitchy-ass girls but almost no one was saying shit to anyone’s face. > [@](#): > > If someone was being overly cheap or stingy, they would be referred to as a “scabby Jew”. The exception being of course, that if someone was Jewish, you didn’t ever call _that_ person a scabby Jew. For serious? “Scabby Jew”? What part of the country are you from? Again, I went to school with privileged little Southern belles in the bible belt, there were maybe 2 Jewish people in the whole school, and I have never, ever, ever heard that phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/86 "2010-12-02T09:31:27Z")
> [@carm](#): > > I don’t know how old you guys are, how long it is since you were kids, but I was a teenager not too long ago, and terms like “faggot”, “jew”, “bender”, “queer”, “retard” were _absolutely standard_. So standard that kids who didn’t use these words (and I can only think of a couple) stood out, not the other way around. How long was not too long ago? I went to high school ten years ago and none of those words, except maybe “retard”, was in standard usage among my peers. I don’t even know what “bender” means. If someone wanted to insult someone else, the old standbys were “bitch” and “asshole”. As far as I recall, NO ONE used slurs like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/87 "2010-12-02T10:50:12Z")
> [@carm](#): > > I don’t know how old you guys are, how long it is since you were kids, but I was a teenager not too long ago, and terms like “faggot”, “jew”, “bender”, “queer”, “retard” were _absolutely standard_. So standard that kids who didn’t use these words (and I can only think of a couple) stood out, not the other way around. This was in a middle-class liberal part of the world as well, not some trailer park full of redneck racists. Of these, the only one I think that would have been standard in my high school was “retard”. The rest - never. I feel really, really confident that I would remember if I had ever heard someone called a “scabby Jew”. (As I am myself a Jew.) My memory pretty much jibes with **Justin Bailey** ’s. I graduated from a public high school in a middle class, mostly liberal suburb in Northern California in 1996. I turned twenty in 1998. I hope things haven’t actually gotten _worse_ in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/88 "2010-12-02T11:41:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Is there another politician I don’t know of, or do you mean Mike Huckabee? Yes, I keep calling him Tim and calling Tim Pawlenty Mike. I don’t know why I can’t keep those two untangled, they’re not _that_ much alike. > [@carm](#): > > I don’t know how old you guys are, how long it is since you were kids, but I was a teenager not too long ago, and terms like “faggot”, “jew”, “bender”, “queer”, “retard” were _absolutely standard_. And so it’s inexplicable to expect something better? Especially from kids who were allegedly raised in a religious standard that **demands** better? I’m sorry, I simply reject that sort of laissez-faire, shrug and ignore sort of attitude. > [@](#): > > I don’t think any child’s behaviour should be judged too harshly, as there is still plenty of time for them to learn. It’s hardly “too harsh” to note that the choice of words here was inappropriate, was homophobic and shouldn’t have been used, whether it was from a 16 year old or a 46 year old. Wrong is wrong, period. And the only way for said 16 year old to learn that her behavior is wrong is for people to say “this is wrong.” Not create excuses for it, whether that excuse is “she’s only 16” or “she was goaded” or “she was defending her mommy.” Wrong is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/89 "2010-12-02T15:00:13Z")
> [@carm](#): > > I don’t know how old you guys are, how long it is since you were kids, but I was a teenager not too long ago, and terms like “faggot”, “jew”, “bender”, “queer”, “retard” were _absolutely standard_. So standard that kids who didn’t use these words (and I can only think of a couple) stood out, not the other way around. I don’t know carm, maybe you hung out with a bunch of douchebags. I have a teenage niece, and she’s one of my facebook friends, and I’ve never heard her (or any of her friends) say or post anything like that. Maybe she’s a foul-mouthed racist when I’m not around (I sincerely doubt it), but at the very least she has the good sense to hide it, which seems to put her a step ahead of the Palin girls. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/90 "2010-12-02T15:40:47Z")
I graduated HS in 1989 from a completely redneck school. I’ll admit in junior high we called people “gaybobs.” I still don’t know why. But by HS, other than “bitch” or the very rare “motherfucker,” it was mostly “jerk” or “tard.” ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/91 "2010-12-02T20:29:43Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > For serious? “Scabby Jew”? What part of the country are you from? Again, I went to school with privileged little Southern belles in the bible belt, there were maybe 2 Jewish people in the whole school, and I have never, ever, ever heard that phrase. I’m from Ireland. Maybe it’s a cultural thing; America has a history of racial tension, Ireland doesn’t at all (bar the Catholic/Protestant divide). From the responses I’m getting here it would seem like these terms are not at all standard in the States; maybe so. The terms don’t have the same history and stigma over here (they may also be more common in Alaska, which I presume has less history of racism as well). Of course, adults would rarely if ever use them. But kids do all the time. I coached an under 12 soccer team until a year or two ago; the three most common slurs were probably “faggot”, “queer”, and “retard”. > [@Kyla](#): > > Of these, the only one I think that would have been standard in my high school was “retard”. The rest - never. I feel really, really confident that I would remember if I had ever heard someone called a “scabby Jew”. (As I am myself a Jew.) My memory pretty much jibes with **Justin Bailey** ’s. > > I graduated from a public high school in a middle class, mostly liberal suburb in Northern California in 1996. I turned twenty in 1998. I hope things haven’t actually gotten _worse_ in the interim. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > How long was not too long ago? I went to high school ten years ago and none of those words, except maybe “retard”, was in standard usage among my peers. I don’t even know what “bender” means. > > If someone wanted to insult someone else, the old standbys were “bitch” and “asshole”. As far as I recall, NO ONE used slurs like that. I’m 24 now. “Bitch”, “dickhead”, “cunt”, “wanker”, “prick” “arsehole” - yep. But these were all more indicative of something the person had done to you; ie if someone did something mean, they might be a “bitch” or “dickhead”, depending on gender. “Faggot”, “queer”, I guess these would be the equivalent of “loser”. For example, if a fifteen year old says “that guy’s a faggot”; he is almost never referring to sexual orientation. He just considers himself higher up on the social ladder, and probably wouldn’t hang around with him. If a guy went shoe-shopping with a female friend, pointed out a pair he liked and she didn’t, she might say “those runners are gay”. Implying that if you want to be cool; don’t buy those runners (trainers). > [@tumbleddown](#): > > And so it’s inexplicable to expect something better? Especially from kids who were allegedly raised in a religious standard that **demands** better? I’m sorry, I simply reject that sort of laissez-faire, shrug and ignore sort of attitude. Meh, they’re only words. When I coached the kids I would pretty much ignore the banter they had between themselves, _unless it turned nasty._ The vast majority of the time, they were kids being kids. It’s their behaviour that’s important, not their vocabulary. I was proud of my kids, whatever about swearing, they really supported each other when they needed to. If one of them fucked up, the other lads would encourage him. They were great friends off the pitch. However, any mean behaviour would be unacceptable. There was one time one of our kids called a black guy on one of the other teams “nigger”; this I came down hard on. He didn’t play the next game, his mother was informed, and he knew afterwards that that was completely unacceptable. In this case, it was. But would you chastise a black rapper for using the word? Context, context, context. > [@tumbleddown](#): > > It’s hardly “too harsh” to note that the choice of words here was inappropriate, was homophobic and shouldn’t have been used, whether it was from a 16 year old or a 46 year old. Wrong is wrong, period. And the only way for said 16 year old to learn that her behavior is wrong is for people to say “this is wrong.” Not create excuses for it, whether that excuse is “she’s only 16” or “she was goaded” or “she was defending her mommy.” Wrong is wrong. I hate that expression. “Wrong is wrong”. It completely ignores the fact that there are differing degrees of everything. Culture and context are hugely important. In the past, people were shocked by any blasphemy, now, blasphemy is commonplace. To say that anyone that uses the word “faggot” is a homophobe is ridiculous - I’ve used it hundreds of times and so has nearly everyone I grew up with. I can assure you, I’m not homophobic in the slightest. > [@Dumbguy](#): > > I don’t know carm, maybe you hung out with a bunch of douchebags. I have a teenage niece, and she’s one of my facebook friends, and I’ve never heard her (or any of her friends) say or post anything like that. Maybe she’s a foul-mouthed racist when I’m not around (I sincerely doubt it), but at the very least she has the good sense to hide it, which seems to put her a step ahead of the Palin girls. It wasn’t just my group of friends, it was _everyone at my school, and everyone from around my area._ There were a few socially awkward kids who didn’t say much, swearing or otherwise. Probably there were a few popular kids who didn’t use foul language, but I can’t think of any guys off the top of my head (there were a few girls who wouldn’t swear, but many of the girls were just as foul-mouthed as the boys). And your niece sounds nice. But a person can be foul-mouthed without being a racist. Or, a person can be racist and well-spoken. Either way, "that person said “JEW” does not equal “that person is RACIST!!” > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Supposing we accept that, the next question is what did someone do to provoke Willow; to get her so _really_ pissed off that she felt the need to use that insult? He said he didn’t like her mother’s TV show. It’s very hard to infer anything from that conversation. Maybe she’s a horrible racist bully, maybe she’s just an insecure and immature girl who felt the need to defend her family. Maybe she’s constantly getting stick from her peers about her mother. Maybe the guy “Matt” is actually the bully, constantly teasing her. I just don’t like the fact that everyone here is ready to pile on and crucify a sixteen year old girl because of who her mother is. Anyway, my point is this. “Hate speech” is not always hateful, and not everyone that uses these words is a racist or a homophobe. They seem to be a lot more common in Ireland that the US, maybe the same applies to Alaska. If she had been posting “you’re a faggot” to a post of “Matt has come out - hey guys” then yeah, she’s probably a homophobe. Or, she’s friends with Matt, knows he’s gay, and knows he won’t mind a bit of teasing (unlikely, but not impossible). But in this case, her use of the words seems as though she is merely using them as generic insults. If this was a couple of random teenagers with regular parents, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The girl does not deserve the hatred of the whole internet to come crashing down on her just because her mom’s a bitch and she didn’t realise when she was posting on facebook that the whole world would see it. She’ll know next time. And words like “jerk”, “loser” and other non-hate-speech insults can be just as hurtful, if not more. Context is everything. The history of an insult is not as important as the meaning behind it. Me calling my friend a “queer” is not the same as a member of the Westboro Baptist Church saying God hates queers". A black guy calling his homie “nigger” is not the same as me calling a black guy on the street “nigger”. And Bristol Palin calling someone on facebook “faggot” (when they are already in a slagging match) is not necessarily hate-speech, and is not necessarily any different to her calling him a “jerkoff” or “asshole”. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/92 "2010-12-02T20:56:41Z")
> [@carm](#): > > And words like “jerk”, “loser” and other non-hate-speech insults can be just as hurtful, if not more. Context is everything. The history of an insult is not as important as the meaning behind it. Me calling my friend a “queer” is not the same as a member of the Westboro Baptist Church saying God hates queers". A black guy calling his homie “nigger” is not the same as me calling a black guy on the street “nigger”. And Bristol Palin calling someone on facebook “faggot” (when they are already in a slagging match) is not necessarily hate-speech, and is not necessarily any different to her calling him a “jerkoff” or “asshole”. Welcome to America moron. Palin (and all her kids) are from the US, not Ireland. And here, calling someone a faggot is WAY past the line. It’s an insult used by people who have already lost. So they go for the jugular, wordwise. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/93 "2010-12-02T21:11:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And here, calling someone a faggot is WAY past the line. Maybe in your neck of the woods. I hear it all the time by the younger crowd. Usually to the friends they’re walking around the mall with. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/94 "2010-12-02T21:16:46Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Welcome to America moron. Palin (and all her kids) are from the US, not Ireland. And here, calling someone a faggot is WAY past the line. It’s an insult used by people who have already lost. So they go for the jugular, wordwise. Calling me a moron makes you every bit as bad as her. Worse even, since [you clearly advocate eugenics and believe stupidity is hereditary.](http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/333617/origin_of_the_word_moron_eugenics_racism_pg2.html?cat=38) > [@](#): > > Few of us who use the word “moron” think much on where it comes from. It comes from a dark period in America’s past, and while we have progressed beyond such racist and unscientific notions today, think about where moron comes from the next time you want to call a person one. Edit: obviously I don’t believe **Justin** advocates eugenics. But neither is everyone who uses “faggot” homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/95 "2010-12-02T21:27:41Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > I don’t know carm, maybe you hung out with a bunch of douchebags. I have a teenage niece, and she’s one of my facebook friends, and I’ve never heard her (or any of her friends) say or post anything like that. Maybe she’s a foul-mouthed racist when I’m not around (I sincerely doubt it), but at the very least she has the good sense to hide it, which seems to put her a step ahead of the Palin girls. One more thing. They are not just teenage girls, they are the kids of someone in the public spotlight, and if they can’t figure out how to control themselves they’ve got serious problems. One of my wife’s roommates in college was the daughter of someone high up in the legislature; and even in 1971, when things didn’t spread so quickly, she was very sensitive about saying or doing anything which could be used against her father. I don’t know if Palin is an ineffective mother or the kids are stupid or both - but this is something kids in the public eye are or should be aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/96 "2010-12-02T21:30:10Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Edit: obviously I don’t believe **Justin** advocates eugenics. But neither is everyone who uses “faggot” homophobic.[/SIZE] Ah, but there’s the rub. “Moron” is an outdated medical term that has now come to mean something else. “Faggot” is still an insult today. Maybe in 25 years, we’ll tell each other “Smell you later, faggot” everytime we would say goodbye today. But I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/97 "2010-12-02T21:37:38Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Ah, but there’s the rub. “Moron” is an outdated medical term that has now come to mean something else. “Faggot” is still an insult today. Maybe in 25 years, we’ll tell each other “Smell you later, faggot” everytime we would say goodbye today. But I doubt it. It can be an insult. It’s not always. There are already people who say “smell you later faggot” without offense being meant or taken, you don’t have to wait 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/98 "2010-12-02T21:39:47Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Ah, but there’s the rub. “Moron” is an outdated medical term that has now come to mean something else. “Faggot” is still an insult today. Maybe in 25 years, we’ll tell each other “Smell you later, faggot” everytime we would say goodbye today. But I doubt it. Exactly. “Retard” is devolving from a medical term to a relatively inoffensive insult; it’s not there yet. Moron, Imbecile & Idiot have arrived. I don’t “hate” the Palin girls. They’re just the result of a white trash upbringing. An especially hypocritical upbringing, coming from such a “good Christian” mom. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/99 "2010-12-02T21:42:02Z")
Wait. Are we now arguing over whether it’s offensive to call people “faggot”? She meant to be insulting. She wanted to wound. She chose a word that has a long history of animosity and vitriol behind it in this country. Alaska is still the US. She watches the same TV and, in theory, reads the same books. Her words were deliberately offensive. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043/100 "2010-12-02T21:45:46Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Ah, but there’s the rub. “Moron” is an outdated medical term that has now come to mean something else. “Faggot” is still an insult today. Maybe in 25 years, we’ll tell each other “Smell you later, faggot” everytime we would say goodbye today. But I doubt it. And pointing out that the word is in common usage among kids Willow Palin’s age kinda misses the point behind criticism of her mother; most other 40-ish parents find that type of casual usage of bigoted language _unfortunate_, and try to correct it. They don’t gloss over it with their kids and they don’t publicly defend a brainless teenage argument where such language is used by their kid because ‘somebody else started it’ (which is what Sarah Palin seems to be saying). Unless the claim is that the demi-Governor is in fact such a dedicated descriptivist she’ll defend common usages wherever she finds 'em, then it’s beside the point whether a particular slur is typically employed in teen social networking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palins-it-is-unfair-to-nitpick-someones-misspeaking-hypocrisy-oh-and-she-is-a-liar-too/562043.md?page=4)