# Pan movie: There's singing in here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491 "2015-10-12T23:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/1 "2015-10-12T23:19:25Z")
I didn’t see the movie but I was reading[this review](https://www.yahoo.com/movies/box-office-how-pan-turned-into-an-epic-flop-141835448.html) which mentioned this without additional commentary: > [@](#): > > Leading up to its release, Pan was ravaged by critics. Some reviewers described it as a sort ofIndiana Jones meets Avatar, with Jackman’s Blackbeard compared to the villain in Mad Max: Fury Road. **And Wright’s decision to have Blackbeard and his gang of pirates sing Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” was heavily debated.** Pan is the first studio tentpole directed by Wright, known for speciality fare like Atonement and Pride and Prejudice. WTF? Are they serious? The pirates sing that song? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/2 "2015-10-12T23:20:09Z")
Here we are now, entertain us!! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/3 "2015-10-13T01:14:12Z")
Not surprising; the whole “we specifically reject casting Native Americans for this Native American role; white actresses only, please” spoke to me of a certain tone-deafness. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/4 "2015-10-13T01:40:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > WTF? Are they serious? The pirates sing that song? The review I read–which basically called the movie a crime against humanity–mentioned a couple of appearances of anachronistic pop music. ---
**Author:** ![Bonaventure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c57346/32.png) [@Bonaventure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonaventure)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/5 "2015-10-13T01:56:18Z")
I’m sure Joe Wright would say: “But you loved anachronistic pop songs in ‘A Knight’s Tale’! I shouldn’t have let the studio cut the scene of Captain Hook singing ‘Crocodile Rock.’” ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/6 "2015-10-14T00:26:13Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Not surprising; the whole “we specifically reject casting Native Americans for this Native American role; white actresses only, please” spoke to me of a certain tone-deafness. In all fairness, I really don’t envy the studio on that point—I don’t think there’s any “good” option they could have gone with regarding the Indians, these days. Depict them just as they were in the book? “You’re using horrible Victorian stereotypes!” More modernized versions? “Cultural appropriation! New age ‘Noble Savage’ stereotyping!” Use actual Native American actors and a meticulously researched and accurate depiction? “They’re just there to be [inspiring supporting characters](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro) for all the _white_ characters!” Cut them out completely? “Whitewashing! You’re memory holing POCs from the story!” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/7 "2015-10-14T01:00:31Z")
I didn’t even know there was another movie coming out. The book is in public domain now, right? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/8 "2015-10-14T01:13:13Z")
Many articles are talking about a disaster of pan-galactic proportions > **[Box Office: 'Pan' Bombs Harder Than 'John Carter' With $15.5M Weekend, 'Steve...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/11/box-office-pan-bombs-harder-than-john-carter-with-15-5m-weekend-steve-jobs-snags-521k/)** > > 'Pan' image courtesy of Warner Bros. In the last few years, there has been something of a mini-epidemic of periodic mega-budget flops. I don't mean expensive films that didn't quite make enough to justify the expense, or even smaller films that came... > [@](#): > > Box Office: ‘Pan’ Bombs Harder Than ‘John Carter’ With $15.5M > > In the last few years, there has been something of a mini-epidemic of periodic mega-budget flops. I don’t mean expensive films that didn’t quite make enough to justify the expense, or even smaller films that came and went from the theater screens without a peep. I’m talking expensive would-be blockbuster movies that have been relatively costly disasters. Bad reviews, little interest, no preordained interest for audiences, and no real reason to presume that the film in question would justify the mammoth budgets in question. Well, we can sadly add another one to the pile, as Pan debuted with just $15.53 million this weekend on a budget of $155m. For comparison, that’s a noticeably worse debut than Tomorrowland ($33m), John Carter ($30m), The Lone Ranger ($29m), Jack the Giant Slayer ($27m), and Battleship ($25m). > > When Steven Spielberg talks about the notion of the film industry imploding after a bunch of mega-budget disasters, these are the kinds of whiffs he’s arguably talking about. Such was the sad case of Pan, which no amount of pixie dust or happy thoughts could save this weekend. Warner Bros.Time Warner Inc.’s big-budget and not-remotely-anticipated fantasy adventure debuted this weekend with a tragic thud. The Joe Wright adventure, a PG-rated fairy tale adventure concerning the origins of Peter Pan, was supposed to be released on July 24 before getting moved abruptly to this weekend. The film’s special effects were allegedly not complete, but whatever the case the film ended up flying to October in the hopes that it would be a big fish in a small pond. > > It wasn’t an entirely insane proposition. Warner Bros. practically invented the notion of a would-be October blockbuster with Demolition Man back in 1993. But this is an awfully crowded month, and whatever “event movie of the fall” heat anyone expected was over as soon as the first trailer for The Martian dropped last summer. Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/9 "2015-10-14T01:18:08Z")
Worse than _John Carter_? Wow! That definitely is pan-galactic. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/10 "2015-10-14T20:33:25Z")
That’s a bit misleading. Pan didn’t debut as high as some of those films but some of those films cost more. [List of box office bombs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs) So 150 - 15, it can only lose $135 million at most, so 15 more million and it won’t be as bad as John Carter! ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/11 "2015-10-14T21:55:30Z")
Here’s the review I alluded to above, from the San Francisco Chronicle: [“Pan,” supposedly the story of how Peter got his start, is a complete washout, a joyless, pointless and fundamentally idiotic enterprise.](http://www.sfgate.com/movies/article/Pan-is-a-joyless-fundamentally-idiotic-6556256.php) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/12 "2015-10-14T21:56:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I didn’t even know there was another movie coming out. > > The book is in public domain now, right? It still under copyright in the UK and few other countries. You also have to pay royalties to the Great Ormond Street Hospital if you want to show it in the UK. As for me, I saw **Peter and the Starcatcher** (based upon a book cowritten by Dave Barry) last year. You can’t top it as a Peter Pan origin story. If nothing else, the phrase “Oh, my God” will always make you smile. And, yes, it has singing, though it’s hard to hear the biggest musical number over the audiences laughter. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/13 "2015-10-14T22:24:10Z")
I saw a trailer for this and thought, “Well, I certainly don’t need to see _that…_”. Looks like I was right this time, according to the reviews… ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/14 "2015-10-14T23:47:35Z")
It has a higher rating than _Manos_ or _Saving Christmas_…how bad can it be? OMFSM…that singing though…XD ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/15 "2015-10-15T02:26:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I saw a trailer for this and thought, “Well, I certainly don’t need to see _that…_”. Looks like I was right this time, according to the reviews… Yeah, I saw the trailers and thought So yeah, another film about following your star and believing in your self and trusting your destiny and then your dreams will come true and you’ll be able to fly. Flying’s hard work, kid, get up early, practice harder, and pick up a few cuts and bruises. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/16 "2015-10-15T04:50:01Z")
For an interesting alternate take on Peter Pan, they could do worse than to adapt Lisa Jensen’s recent novel _Alias Hook._ It presents James Hook’s point of view, presents him as an immortal who plays out the cycle of conflict with Peter over and over, and postulates that there are many “Wendys” who come to Neverland, stay with Peter a while, and leave when they realize Peter is never going to reciprocate their feelings. It does a good job of presenting Hook as a sympathetic character without too much sugar-coating, and shows what happens when an adult woman from the “real” world (post-WWII London by this point) “dreams” herself into Neverland. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/17 "2015-10-15T07:50:31Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > In all fairness, I really don’t envy the studio on that point—I don’t think there’s any “good” option they could have gone with regarding the Indians, these days. Depict them just as they were in the book? “You’re using horrible Victorian stereotypes!” More modernized versions? “Cultural appropriation! New age ‘Noble Savage’ stereotyping!” Use actual Native American actors and a meticulously researched and accurate depiction? “They’re just there to be [inspiring supporting characters](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro) for all the _white_ characters!” Cut them out completely? “Whitewashing! You’re memory holing POCs from the story!” That seems very dismissive of the issue. But I’m sure we’ll agree that the “no redskins wanted in OUR movie” decision was DEFINITELY wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pan-movie-theres-singing-in-here/734491/18 "2015-10-15T13:32:08Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > For an interesting alternate take on Peter Pan, they could do worse than to adapt Lisa Jensen’s recent novel _Alias Hook._ It presents James Hook’s point of view, presents him as an immortal who plays out the cycle of conflict with Peter over and over, and postulates that there are many “Wendys” who come to Neverland, stay with Peter a while, and leave when they realize Peter is never going to reciprocate their feelings. It does a good job of presenting Hook as a sympathetic character without too much sugar-coating, and shows what happens when an adult woman from the “real” world (post-WWII London by this point) “dreams” herself into Neverland. Looks interesting, thanks for the recommendation!