# Panetta and the DoD banning God from military funerals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809 "2011-07-12T23:35:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/1 "2011-07-12T23:35:37Z")
Okay, I know it’s bullshit, but the below is all over social sites. I know it’s BS, but I can’t find a cite to refute it. Anyone got something for me? \*Please stand with our veterans today. Posted by Jack Cunningham on Jul 11 Please stand with our veterans today. U.S. Senator Urges Veterans Affairs (VA) to Investigate Reports of Religious Discrimination Contact information is below. Please pass this around to your internet friends and recruit to this Cause. Stop the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) from banning the Word ‘God’ from Military Funerals Join our Facebook Cause at: (We already have 6,950 members. We are averaging over 500 supporters joining a day.)\* ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/2 "2011-07-12T23:59:08Z")
I did a quick search and it seems to be occurring only at Houston VA National Cemetery. Congressman Ted Poe of TX 2nd dist. is calling for an investigation. [http://poe.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=249413](http://poe.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=249413) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/3 "2011-07-13T00:23:56Z")
[Here](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7630537.html) is an article from the Houston Chronicle on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/4 "2011-07-13T00:51:40Z")
According to the linked article, there’s a federal lawsuit pending. If the allegations are true, it oughta be a slam dunk for the plaintiffs. Can’t imagine how the cemetery could possibly think this would pass constitutional muster. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/5 "2011-07-13T01:42:46Z")
Well, if this [link](http://www.secular.org/blogs/jason-torpy/religious-groups-criticize-houston-va-respecting-families-wishes) is accurate, the DoD or VA is not telling these volunteer groups that they can’t reference God or Christianity, they are saying that if the family of the deceased do not WANT a Christian ceremony or references, then they should be able to bury their loved one without having religion thrust on them. I can get behind that. Freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion, right? ---
**Author:** ![minkyhaha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@minkyhaha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minkyhaha)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/6 "2011-07-13T01:57:29Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion, right? Nope, not if Westboro Baptist Church is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/7 "2011-07-13T02:48:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Here](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7630537.html) is an article from the Houston Chronicle on the matter. > [@leftfield6](#): > > Well, if this [link](http://www.secular.org/blogs/jason-torpy/religious-groups-criticize-houston-va-respecting-families-wishes) is accurate, the DoD or VA is not telling these volunteer groups that they can’t reference God or Christianity, they are saying that if the family of the deceased do not WANT a Christian ceremony or references, then they should be able to bury their loved one without having religion thrust on them. > > I can get behind that. Freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion, right? The Houston Chronicle ought to be embarrassed about running such a thinly-researched, one-sided article as news. ---
**Author:** ![olefin32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@olefin32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin32)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/8 "2011-07-13T16:01:16Z")
Thank God for the Houston Chronicle… most newspapers are too liberal to print the truth. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/9 "2011-07-13T16:03:42Z")
> [@olefin32](#): > > Thank God for the Houston Chronicle… most newspapers are too liberal to print the truth. Really? Did you read the other link referenced above? What is your version of the “truth” here? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/10 "2011-07-13T16:21:17Z")
> [@olefin32](#): > > Thank God for the Houston Chronicle… most newspapers are too liberal to print the truth. [Moderator Note] Political jabs are not permitted in GQ. No warning issued, but do not do this again. I have also edited out the second part of your post as promoting an e-mailing campaign, which we also do not permit. The link itself may be re-posted, without the commentary or call to action. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/11 "2011-07-13T16:25:53Z")
I’ve tried Google News Search as well as Searches at my favorite big reliable news sites and find rather little mention of this story, outside obvious right-wing or Christian sites. Other than Houston Chronicle, CBS was the only major news site to appear on searches, and that was just for some Opinion piece. What gives?? 😕 😕 One source implied policy at the Houston site was to forbid Christian utterances when the bereaved made that request, but elsewhere there seemed to be an implication that no-God would be the default if family forgot to specify – that seems wrong, why not just ask? At this point, I’m much more curious why the story is missing from major media than I am about the story itself. Am I just typing the wrong things as Search terms? (ETA: Even if you argue the story is unimportant or just spin, at some point the story becomes the story! There’s plenty of room at websites for stories not worth paper or air-time.) ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/12 "2011-07-13T16:29:06Z")
oops ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/13 "2011-07-13T16:49:29Z")
There seems to be two seperate issues: 1. Funerals, where the deceased’s next of kin should be free to specifiy what happens at their specific ceremonies; (and I don’t think anyone would object to that) 2. “Public” ceremonies, like a Memorial Day or Veteran’s Day observance/prayer. (And I think the Director Ocasio is saying these ceremonies need to be “generic” and non-denominational.) Or am I reading the news articles wrong? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/14 "2011-07-13T17:18:15Z")
> [@ryan](#): > > I did a quick search and it seems to be occurring only at Houston VA National Cemetery. Congressman Ted Poe of TX 2nd dist. is calling for an investigation. > [http://poe.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=249413](http://poe.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=249413) [**Poe’s Law.**](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law) Just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![olefin32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@olefin32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin32)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/15 "2011-07-13T17:20:23Z")
I’m a USAF Korean Veteran and I think Director Ocasio should be fired. Hope it’s ok with the forum for me to say that. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/16 "2011-07-13T17:36:50Z")
This begs for a thread in a different forum. Since it was a factual question, I’m not going to express my opinion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/17 "2011-07-13T17:45:12Z")
Yeah, this should probably move over to Great Debates soon. I needed a cite in my OP, I’ve got that, so move it if needed to let the discussion run free.😃 ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/18 "2011-07-13T17:49:36Z")
> [@olefin32](#): > > I’m a USAF Korean Veteran and I think Director Ocasio should be fired. > Hope it’s ok with the forum for me to say that. Why? Because she considers the rights and wishes of veterans’ families to be more important than those of staff? Why would that make you want to fire her? ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/19 "2011-07-13T17:54:49Z")
> [@olefin32](#): > > I’m a USAF Korean Veteran and I think Director Ocasio should be fired. > Hope it’s ok with the forum for me to say that. Sure. Why should you have to respect the rules of the forum? Just a question for you though. How would you feel if a volunteer approached you at a funeral and handed you a card that said “Allah Akhbar” or “Your loved one is with Allah now”? Would you be OK with that or would you find it offensive to your religious beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809/20 "2011-07-13T17:57:40Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > There seems to be two seperate issues: > > 1. Funerals, where the deceased’s next of kin should be free to specifiy what happens at their specific ceremonies; (and I don’t think anyone would object to that) > > 2. “Public” ceremonies, like a Memorial Day or Veteran’s Day observance/prayer. (And I think the Director Ocasio is saying these ceremonies need to be “generic” and non-denominational.) > > Or am I reading the news articles wrong? That seems to be the case. As for the second issue, if the government is to include an invocation in a public ceremony it cannot responsibly control the precise content of it. Reasonable care may be made over the choice of speakers and whether to include clergy at all, but these clergy have the right to pray according to their own faith traditions. Asking a clergyman not to pray to his deity is a gross constitutional violation. This is what got the cemetery in trouble around Memorial Day when it was slapped with a restraining order - they were prevented from censoring the prayer of a minister, Scott Rainey. [The order is here.](http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/texas/txsdce/4:2011cv01992/892003/4/) This same judge is hearing the case concerning the chapel closure and the issue with the honor guards and the Memorial Ladies. In the hearing reported on by the _Chronicle_ story, he was getting a bit annoyed with the VA attorney for unresponsive answers. Stay tuned. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/panetta-and-the-dod-banning-god-from-military-funerals/588809.md?page=2)