# Pan's Labyrinth: Did I watch the same movie everyone else did? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 17, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343 "2010-02-17T16:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/41 "2010-02-18T02:37:24Z")
I planned on wasting time when I caught it on TV. I thought it was terrific. I knew nothing about it and was surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/42 "2010-02-18T03:03:58Z")
I am flat out convinced that some people don’t care for good movies. Whether or not you liked the story, it was a well made movie. I happened to like it myself. IMHO, Guillermo Del Toro has mastered the art of making good movies. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/43 "2010-02-18T05:07:24Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I am flat out convinced that some people don’t care for good movies. > Whether or not you liked the story, it was a well made movie. I happened to like it myself. IMHO, Guillermo Del Toro has mastered the art of making good movies. A lot of people don’t like good movies. That’s why Hollywood makes so much money churning out crappy ones for them. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/44 "2010-02-18T05:40:34Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > In my interpretation there is a lesson and he uses turns the conventions of fairy tales on their head to deliver it. > > Fairy tale convention: “You are given a set of instructions and you have to follow them or Bad Things Will Happen”. > > Lesson of film: “Do not blindly follows orders without thinking for yourself or Fascism Will Happen”. At the end the faun asks her to sacrifice the baby and she refuses. She is right to do so and she passes the test. I felt the message of not bowing to authority and thinking for yourself was the link with the historial events in “real life”. > > I love the film, for its imagery yes, but especially for the message I read into it. I saw it more as an escapist fantasy with the real world and the make believe world colliding at the very end but I like your interpretation much, much better. It really makes perfect sense, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/45 "2010-02-18T05:52:10Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > It ought to be a punishable offense to mention those two movies in the same post. > > Man from Earth was the most derivative snoozefest I’ve ever seen. Pan’s Labyrinth was on the other hand, brilliant. I agree. TMFE wasn’t my \*worst \*movie experience this year, but only because I’ve seen some truly dreadful films lately. It ranks though, it ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/46 "2010-02-18T05:53:55Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I am flat out convinced that some people don’t care for good movies. > Whether or not you liked the story, it was a well made movie. I happened to like it myself. IMHO, Guillermo Del Toro has mastered the art of making good movies. Yeah, but a “well made movie” with a story you don’t like is usually _not_ a good movie. That was my problem with “Pan’s Labyrinth” - the production values were terrific, the story not so much. It’s too long since I saw it to precisely remember my objections (something about the gratuitous fantasy scenes, I think?), but I saw it twice in the theaters just to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. I wasn’t. I’m glad that “The Lives of Others” beat it for the Foreign Language Oscar. I’m surprised how many people here admit to not caring for it - my recollection at the time was that EVERYONE (on this board, in real life) loved it and I was just the odd man out. If opinion is now split maybe history is slowly validating my opinion?? :dubious: FTR, I also didn’t get (but didn’t particularly hate) “Spirited Away”, and I thought “Avatar” was mostly terrible. So either I just don’t get some fantasy films, or other people are way more swayed by good looking films with weak stories than I am. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/47 "2010-02-18T06:00:48Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > I’m surprised how many people here admit to not caring for it - my recollection at the time was that EVERYONE (on this board, in real life) loved it and I was just the odd man out. If opinion is now split maybe history is slowly validating my opinion?? :dubious: Nope. It’s a pretty close to flawless movie that works on a number of levels without ever losing its focus. It’s a pretty astonishing accomplishment. But no movie is for everyone. Pan’s Labyrinth requires more than average viewer participation, but all efforts are rewarded. For an interesting window through some of those layers, try watching it with Del Toro’s commentary track turned on. Every little detail is carefully planned and perfectly executed. It’s one of the densest films ever to achieve such mainstream success. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/48 "2010-02-18T06:37:23Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Nope. It’s a pretty close to flawless movie that works on a number of levels without ever losing its focus. It’s a pretty astonishing accomplishment. But no movie is for everyone. Pan’s Labyrinth requires more than average viewer participation, but all efforts are rewarded. For an interesting window through some of those layers, try watching it with Del Toro’s commentary track turned on. Every little detail is carefully planned and perfectly executed. It’s one of the densest films ever to achieve such mainstream success. I might do that. I’d be interested to learn what so many people see in this movie. It’s clearly just not one I respond to on some level, but the commentary might teach me to appreciate more aspects of it. BUT…for whatever small, unscientific worth it might be, opinion of the film as expressed on these boards has definitely cooled. A scan of the [original](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=402095) thread shows near universal agreement that it was a masterpiece. Four years later, this thread is split between people who think it’s a masterpiece, people who think it’s good, and people who don’t care for it. My prediction is that it will always be pretty well regarded, but will start dropping off people’s list and a decade or two hence its flaws will be all the more apparent. (It will age way better than “Avatar” though, because Del Toro’s a much better filmmaker than Cameron.) I’ll see if the commentary changes my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/49 "2010-02-18T10:31:11Z")
The part I latched onto was the ambiguity of the fantasy but also what this meant in terms of death for the characters, the deaths of the captain and Ofelia were to me the difference between heaven and hell (this is my own theory, by the way, so it’s very likely that it wasn’t intended by the film maker). Ofelia is shot and left dying and begins to have her vision of the underworld with herself as the princess passing the test and coming home, and everyone applauding her return. There’s two explanations, either it’s real, in which case she effectively goes to heaven (joins her father, mother and becomes the third of the holy triad), or it’s just a hallucination brought on by death, in which case it’s the last thing she sees and she dies happy. The captain had led his entire life driven by the story of his father and the stopped watch and the most important thing to him was to have a son to pass his name and legacy on to. His last moment was kneeling in front of crowd of people who despised him, being told that his wish wouldn’t be fulfilled as the child would never even know that he existed, before being shot and going into darkness. Whether you believe in the fantasy elements of the film it’s a fantastic allegory of the rewards for a good and evil life carrying over into the afterlife (or lack of one if you don’t believe in such a thing, as I don’t). ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/50 "2010-02-18T13:09:27Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > The part I latched onto was the ambiguity of the fantasy but also what this meant in terms of death for the characters, the deaths of the captain and Ofelia were to me the difference between heaven and hell (this is my own theory, by the way, so it’s very likely that it wasn’t intended by the film maker). > > Ofelia is shot and left dying and begins to have her vision of the underworld with herself as the princess passing the test and coming home, and everyone applauding her return. There’s two explanations, either it’s real, in which case she effectively goes to heaven (joins her father, mother and becomes the third of the holy triad), or it’s just a hallucination brought on by death, in which case it’s the last thing she sees and she dies happy. > > The captain had led his entire life driven by the story of his father and the stopped watch and the most important thing to him was to have a son to pass his name and legacy on to. His last moment was kneeling in front of crowd of people who despised him, being told that his wish wouldn’t be fulfilled as the child would never even know that he existed, before being shot and going into darkness. > > Whether you believe in the fantasy elements of the film it’s a fantastic allegory of the rewards for a good and evil life carrying over into the afterlife (or lack of one if you don’t believe in such a thing, as I don’t). You’re not the only one to read that into it. That’s how I’d sum it up as well. (though not as eloquently). She died a hero and happy regardless of the truth of her fantasy world. An innocent child was rescued, and an evil ended. As “happy” an ending as was possible. I also saw that the “good” people did not care about the child’s background. The evils of the father were not visited on the son. I found that part profoundly moving. Now excuse me…I have something in my eye. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/51 "2010-02-18T14:54:28Z")
I go with the sad ending. The fantasy world created by the little girl was her way of coping with a bad situation. A cruel step-father, a sick mother, and a vicious little civil war that had not quite come to an end. When she laid there dying she coped with it by retreating into her little fantasy world. It was depressing. Of course the ending wasn’t all bleak, as others have pointed out her little brother will continue to live and won’t be raised by his cruel father. I thought _Pan’s Labyrinth_ was an excellent movie. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/52 "2010-02-18T15:58:29Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > The part I latched onto was the ambiguity of the fantasy but also what this meant in terms of death for the characters, the deaths of the captain and Ofelia were to me the difference between heaven and hell (this is my own theory, by the way, so it’s very likely that it wasn’t intended by the film maker). > > Ofelia is shot and left dying and begins to have her vision of the underworld with herself as the princess passing the test and coming home, and everyone applauding her return. There’s two explanations, either it’s real, in which case she effectively goes to heaven (joins her father, mother and becomes the third of the holy triad), or it’s just a hallucination brought on by death, in which case it’s the last thing she sees and she dies happy. > > The captain had led his entire life driven by the story of his father and the stopped watch and the most important thing to him was to have a son to pass his name and legacy on to. His last moment was kneeling in front of crowd of people who despised him, being told that his wish wouldn’t be fulfilled as the child would never even know that he existed, before being shot and going into darkness. > > Whether you believe in the fantasy elements of the film it’s a fantastic allegory of the rewards for a good and evil life carrying over into the afterlife (or lack of one if you don’t believe in such a thing, as I don’t). It was a “Meh.” ending when it was the end of A.I., and it was just as meh here, IMO. Oh, ummm, spoilers, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/53 "2010-02-18T16:28:48Z")
> [@johnspartan](#): > > It was a “Meh.” ending when it was the end of A.I., and it was just as meh here, IMO. > > Oh, ummm, spoilers, I guess. I don’t really get this comparison. The ending to AI… …on the surface was sappy “happy” ending for David, but really showed him to be horrifyingly selfish and cruel in essentially destroying that woman’s eternal soul (or whatever) for a few more hours of hugs. The end part is not a happy reunion before dying, it’s a twisted horror of selfish, one-dimensional, superficial “love.” I have come to see the ending of this movie as more complex than many (or I, originally) gave it credit for. I agree with many others here about the ending to Pan’s Labyrinth (heaven/hell, fascism, etc.). Brilliant and beautiful film that still affects me every time I see it, which is pretty rare for me. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/54 "2010-02-18T16:36:09Z")
> [@troub](#): > > Brilliant and beautiful film that still affects me every time I see it, which is pretty rare for me. Can’t say it any better than that. One of my favourites. I’m so glad del Toro is doing The Hobbit. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/55 "2010-02-19T03:18:56Z")
I love the movie. But… > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I am flat out convinced that some people don’t care for good movies. …sometimes people have different tastes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/56 "2010-02-19T03:39:53Z")
I didn’t much care for the film- too dark, etc. But it _was_ well-made. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/57 "2010-02-19T06:12:22Z")
Count me in as one who loved it. The violent parts made me cringe, the villain was shudder-inducing, the scene with the Pale Man was creepy as hell, and the ending was both triumphant and devastating. One of my favorite foreign films. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343/58 "2010-02-19T16:47:55Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I love the movie. But… > > …sometimes people have different tastes. Right. Some have a taste for crappy movies. Some prefer quality. I actually appreciate both, but I’m special.😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pans-labyrinth-did-i-watch-the-same-movie-everyone-else-did/529343.md?page=2)