# Papa Johns - How do they manage to make some of the greatest pizza on earth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705 "2017-10-13T05:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/61 "2017-10-13T18:37:04Z")
> [@witzel](#): > > Yes, one slice at a randomly-selected pizza place is an acceptable barometer of the other thousands of non-chain pizzerias in the city, got it. I’ve read and re-read what I wrote and have no idea where it was I said it represented all New York-style pizza or even all the pizza in New York. Please point it out. The particular slice I had was not good. Believe it or not, New York is not the end all be all of everything. There is a whole country to the west and south of New York that has things that are much better than in New York. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/62 "2017-10-13T18:46:59Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m sure it’s tougher, but there doesn’t seem to be a lack of Domino’s or Pizza Huts near me. Within about a square mile, maybe two, I can think of a Domino’s, a Pizza Hut, a Little Caesar’s, and a Chuck E Cheese (if you want to count that). Granted, there are also probably about four- or five-fold the amount of ma & pop places and regional changes (Beggar’s, Home Run Inn, and Giordano’s–oh, we finally got a Lou’s out here, too) in there (some quite good, some terrible). So there’s a decent mix of big chains, little chains, ma & pops. The reason I pick the big chains some days is usually one of economics. I can get a reasonable pizza the kids enjoy from Domino’s for half the price or less than the same pizza at a local ma & pop. And usually quicker, too. And they’ll accept credit cards (not all the ma & pop around me do.) And I can order from the computer. So sometimes, convenience and price win out. Exactly I want good pizza = local m&p place Kids are having friends over = Domino’s 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/63 "2017-10-13T18:48:06Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Are you in the StL area? ISTR you being in KC (you gave me some good input when I thought I was moving there IIRC). Or has StL style pizza just migrated cross state? I’m in KC, but I grew up in Jefferson City, which is practically St. Louis. They’re is a place here that has St. Lou style pizza. Maybe more then one, but one I know of/ go to. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/64 "2017-10-13T18:49:15Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Believe it or not, New York is not the end all be all of everything. There is a whole country to the west and south of New York that has things that are much better than in New York. No, to a New Yorker, there’s really very little else out there, as The New Yorker once [illustrated](http://brilliantmaps.com/new-yorkers-world/). ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/65 "2017-10-13T19:15:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, to a New Yorker, there’s really very little else out there, as The New Yorker once [illustrated](http://brilliantmaps.com/new-yorkers-world/). New Yorkers, all the arrogance of the French with none of the charm. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/66 "2017-10-13T19:17:31Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Of the chain pizzas, it’s the worst, in my opinion. I don’t care about his politics; I just care about the pizza, and it’s just godawful. Domino’s, Little Caesars, Chuck E Cheese Pizza, even Pizza Hut are all better, in my opinion. Agreed. I’d prefer freezer-burned Ellio’s over Papa John’s. Quite literally the worst pizza I’ve ever eaten in my life, and I eat pizza a lot! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/67 "2017-10-13T20:27:38Z")
Gimmee a basic genuine hand-kneaded wheat flour [neapolitan](http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/index_eng.php) pizza, with San Marzano tomatoes & water buffalo mozzerella, baked in a 900 degree F oak-fired stone oven and you can have all those chains with their horrible to mediocre products, Papa Johns included. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/68 "2017-10-13T20:29:56Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Gimmee a basic genuine hand-kneaded wheat flour [neapolitan](http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/index_eng.php) pizza, with San Marzano tomatoes & water buffalo mozzerella, baked in a 900 degree F oak-fired stone oven and you can have all those chains with their horrible to mediocre products, Papa Johns included. Oh, that’s not even _fair!_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/69 "2017-10-13T20:48:00Z")
Simply put, Papa John’s suffers from delusions of adequacy, coming in third against a frozen Banquet pizza with the Banquet pizza and the box it came in taking first and second. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/70 "2017-10-13T21:02:22Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > They don’t appear to exist around here. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them in Iowa City, but they’re take & bake places, right? You can’t get a cooked pizza at the restaurant. Or am I wrong? Because if it’s take & bake, I don’t really count those places because, first, what’s the point and, second, the product is going to be hugely variable depending on how one bakes it. Yup, take and bake. Problem is, they’ve jiggered the crust so that it will come out crisp at 425F, which means that it’s like cardboard. It’s really not very good, but I understand that when you have a house full of kids and not a lot of moola, $10 is a bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/71 "2017-10-13T21:02:22Z")
Pizza, like most other things, is subject to the Triangle of Desires Rule. The triangle is made up of quality, speed and price. The rule is that you can have any 2 of the three be “high”. Want high quality pizza fast? It won’t be cheap (the largest expense in a restaurant is labor cost, 2nd is food cost) Want high quality pizza cheap? It won’t be fast (cheap pizza = fewer employees = longer wait) Want cheap pizza fast? It won’t be high quality (large pizza chains live here) Unfortunately, in the world of pizza most people choose the high speed/low price combo and settle for crappy pizza. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/72 "2017-10-13T22:29:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Yup, take and bake. Problem is, they’ve jiggered the crust so that it will come out crisp at 425F, which means that it’s like cardboard. It’s really not very good, but I understand that when you have a house full of kids and not a lot of moola, $10 is a bargain. Yeah, the only take & bake place I’ve seen around here was the Handmade Pizza Company. (Which, googling around, looks like it closed down in 2014.) I just never quite understood the point. The price of those pizzas wasn’t particularly cheap, and you still had to haul it home and bake it yourself. I guess the plus is you could choose your ingredients, but if you want a non-frozen, bake-it-yourself pizza, many supermarkets have pre-made pies just for that purpose for under $10. Heck, at Aldi, maybe even $5 for a giant pizza (and they’re pretty decent for what they are.) Obviously, they seem to have a market in parts of the US, but it never caught on around here. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/73 "2017-10-13T22:58:59Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The rule for pizza is iron-clad: The quality of the pizza is inversely proportional to the number of restaurants in the chain. I think the best national chain is Straw Hat, although I admit I haven’t eaten there in a long time, as there aren’t any near me. Round Table is decent. All the other national chains are just fighting for who is least-bad. But there are some EXCELLENT local chains. Around the bay area, I always enjoy any pizza from: Pizza My Heart Pizza Chicago Stuft Pizza ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/74 "2017-10-13T23:08:47Z")
> [@MinnesotaBorn\_Raised](#): > > Papa Johns - How do they manage to make some of the greatest pizza on earth? And you’ve never left Bemidji, I see. :the old, more dismissive rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/75 "2017-10-13T23:12:07Z")
We represent Pizza Dinosaur! We got the most stores in the world! Our crust is tough and our sauce is thin, But we’re everywhere so you gotta give in! Mona Pizza’s got nothing on us, 'Cause we’ve got 6000 stores plus! ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/76 "2017-10-13T23:20:01Z")
I’ve never had Papa John’s pizza, but for reasons difficult to articulate the OP makes me want to never have it. mmm ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/77 "2017-10-13T23:28:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Yup, take and bake. Problem is, they’ve jiggered the crust so that it will come out crisp at 425F, which means that it’s like cardboard. It’s really not very good, but I understand that when you have a house full of kids and not a lot of moola, $10 is a bargain. Kroger’s Deli used to have a take and bake pizza. They were already made and packaged. I bought a few over the years. I haven’t looked in awhile to see if they still sell them. I guess other grocery stores sell them in their deli section? It is a nice alternative to frozen. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/78 "2017-10-13T23:28:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Mundane, pointless, and the OP really put forward that “I Must Share This” vibe. I give it a 9. -5 for being in the wrong forum. Pizza should be in Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/79 "2017-10-13T23:29:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Who buys pizza from a restaurant? Everyone knows you can make it better and cheaper yourself! Here’s what you do. First plow a field and sow with hard winter wheat. Six months later, rent a combine harvester… If you wish to make an pizza pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705/80 "2017-10-13T23:43:46Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > -5 for being in the wrong forum. Pizza should be in Cafe Society. Since pizza is a food, I would usually agree. However, this is about Papa Johns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/papa-johns-how-do-they-manage-to-make-some-of-the-greatest-pizza-on-earth/798705.md?page=5)