So let me ask all who are hoo-ha ing this idea a question. If you were on the top floors of the WTCs that day and someone offered you a 'chute, you would turn it down? Sure, not everyone would make it and there would be broken limbs, but the alternative is certainly worse.
I’m not saying it’s a great idea, but I can almost guarentee that there that there would have been more survivors if all those forced to jump had been wearing parachutes.
I think the problem comes from a built-in liability mentality. If the building owners/mngers passed these out to folks headed up every morning, yeah, I see a problem. But if an independant manufacturer sold these to consumers, the idea doesn’t seem so crazy. If they fit in a backpack (remember these are one use only devices), have a surefire opening method and maybe a glass-cutter/hammer to boot, I’d take my chances to the alternative - sure death!
I don’t think it would be a problem to get people to jump in a situation like WTC. People were already jumping from the building, to certain death. It’s been seen in many high-rise fires that if choice is death by burning or death by impact a lot, maybe even most, people will choose to make a leap out a window.
If the alternative is certain death, I think the idea of an untrained BASE jump starts to look reasonable. Better some chance than none at all. But since I have zero experience in parachuting of any sort I’m not going to say how practical such a thing may or may not be.
I think having a few on each floor so that people could get to them would be good and give everyone that wants to use this idea a “crash course” on how to do it. I have seen a few serious inquiries by people (non jumpers) working in high rises that want a base rig for such a case.
And you think this is worse than dieing?
What about bumping into other buildings on the way down? And jumping from the 100th floor and landong on a cement sidewalk or an asphalt road would cause some sort if injury, or possibly death.
Everyone could become base jumpers and become enlightened like me
And how many high-rise fires have you seen that were controlled before anyone was hurt? How about all the deaths from people who jump out of a perfectly good building when they were really in no danger in the first place?
The problem is, when you are in a high rise that is burning, you simply have NO WAY to know what your level of risk is. You smell smoke, you even see flames. But for all you know, the building was designed to allow a conventional fire to burn all day without affecting anyone on other floors (and they are).
Do we really want the skies filled with amateur skydivers every time some idiot pulls a fire alarm in a building?
I repeat: The idea is stupid. If it were put in place, then there would probably be more deaths in skyscrapers in the next few decades than if it wasn’t.
Our approach to date is the reasonable one: If you design a building so that a fire can’t bring it down or spread to other floors, then you don’t need this stuff in the first place. Most of the footage of people jumping from buildings that you’ve seen came from disasters in other countries with different building codes. The ones I’ve seen in the U.S. involved much smaller buildings anyway, where a parachute would do no good.
I think you guys are falling victim to the Walter Mitty syndrome. I’ve had the exact same thoughts - “Oh, if that guy hanging there only had a parachute.” It’s sad to think that a couple of pounds of cloth in a backpack could have saved those poor people. But translating those thoughts into a concept as ridiculous as stocking the WTC with 50,000 parachutes, platforms to jump from, emergency egress windows, etc. is just silly.
If those jets had had less fuel in them, been slightly smaller, or hit the buildings as a slightly different angle, then the buildings might have survived. The fire DIDN’T spread to other floors, other than through the gaping holes left and jet fuel pouring through them.
If the buildings had stood, then having 10,000 people parachute out of them would have resulted in far more casualties than if everyone had just stayed in place. Remember, there were only a few dozen people who jumped. Everyone else elected to either try to get out through the stairwells or stay where they were. That was probably the smart course of action - unfortunately, their luck ran out.
I think you are missing a valid point. People that were on the afflicted floors would be the only users. I think it should be small scale (never giving it out en masse saying at the least bit of threat use it*) but I know people who have inquired about doing it–keeping a base rig in their office closet from now on.
I also don’t think people would just jump if they were not sure of certain death. Standing on the edge of a building, cliff, etc. is very intimidating even if you know what you are doing.
I fully agree with CaelNCSU. What’s silly, Mr. Stone is your notion that because the fires caused a few dozen people to jump, that (if they had parachutes) so would the other hundred thousand. I am very confident that peoples fear of heights and particularly jumping from heights will prevent a lemming effect.
Every person handed a parachute would be wholly aware that this is an absolute last resort. And even then you would still find people, with perfectly good 'chutes burned to death because they were afraid to jump.
And I believe you are wrong about the WME. If a guy was litterally hanging from the edge of a high-rise, a parachute might very well save his life. This is a far cry from rational people with exits available to them, flinging themselves out of a prfectly good building.
I don’t know about you, but jumping out of a window to die on impact instead of being burned alive doesn’t sound like much of a choice to me. Maybe people who work in large buildings considered high-risk for this kind of attack (landmarks, “world-famous” buildings, like the Empire State building) should just have a little glass case next to the one with the fire axe with a bottle of suicide pills.
“In case of imminent doom, break glass.”
Are you crazy!!! This might be your only chance to pull off a Triple Lindey.
Well, I admit that having emergency parachutes for everyone in a high rise is never going to work. But, keeping your own parachute in a closet might work.
The trouble with these parachutes is that we KNOW that they are going to be used when they don’t need to be used. People panic in a disaster. Imagine an earthquake, and dozens of people run for the parachutes, break open the windows and jump for it. It doesn’t take much for a panic to start.
And how many of these people are going to be killed? I imagine that at least half the jumpers are going to die. Well, better half than all. But what if there was no risk? How many high-rise disasters are we imagining we are going to be having over the next couple of decades?
The number of people we estimate will be saved by parachutes must be higher than the number we estimate will be killed by parachutes. Of course the numbers are simply wild-ass guesses, but I believe they would take more lives than they would save.
Even if they could get out a window there would still be a possible updraft wind which would toss them up or who knows where, rather than down.
A lot of people seem to be saying ‘but you can’t open the windows’
I saw TV footage of people (on floors above the fire) waving shirts out of the window in the WTC.
When the second tower (the one with the antenna) collapsed, it didn’t look as if the top of the building was heading downward that fast. It reminded me of the Titanic finally boiling its way into the deep in James Cameron’s movie. That’s caused me to wonder if somebody in the top floors could have survived by running onto the roof of the building and riding it down like Jack and Rose.
This isn’t meant to trivialize the disaster; I just can’t stop wondering about this.
Well, as long as we’re discussing this in the realm of technical possibility, and not in the realm of feasibility…
…As I remember, offshore oil rigs have “life-rafts” that are actually more like a self-contained pod-like craft. The evacuating workers seal themselves inside, then release the Pod, which splashes down into the water below.
Perhaps, instead of issuing people in Skyscrapers individual parachutes, you could just develop some sort of parachute-pod like craft, that people could pile into, en masse, before jettisoning from the building.
This is, of course, entirely academic, impractical, unfeasible, and whatnot.
Ranchoth
Thank you, Mangetout. I saw the exact same footage that you did.
Um, with his shoulder?
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1996-01.html
(1996, Toronto) Police said a lawyer demonstrating the safety of windows in a downtown Toronto skyscraper crashed through a pane with his shoulder and plunged 24 floors to his death. A police spokesman said Garry Hoy, 39, fell into the courtyard of the Toronto Dominion Bank Tower early Friday evening as he was explaining the strength of the building’s windows to visiting law students. Hoy previously had conducted demonstrations of window strength according to police reports. Peter Lauwers, managing partner of the firm Holden Day Wilson, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that Hoy was “one of the best and brightest” members of the 200-man association.
There are many “Fire Safety in a High-Rise” websites out there, and they all say the same thing: Don’t break the windows while you’re waiting to be rescued.
This advice would seem to imply that the windows are in fact breakable, if by no other means than by busting them out with a chair.
http://www.fire.ci.portland.or.us/pfbweb/highrise.htm
DO NOT BREAK WINDOWS: Flames and smoke can travel back to you from the outside.
http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/fire/prevention/infosheets/hirsevac.htm
Do not break windows. Breaking windows will put you at great risk to smoke entering from the outside, and will hamper rescue efforts below.
*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly *
**When the second tower (the one with the antenna) collapsed, it didn’t look as if the top of the building was heading downward that fast. It reminded me of the Titanic finally boiling its way into the deep in James Cameron’s movie. That’s caused me to wonder if somebody in the top floors could have survived by running onto the roof of the building and riding it down like Jack and Rose.This isn’t meant to trivialize the disaster; I just can’t stop wondering about this. **
There was an interview on CNN (IIRC) with a police officer who was on the 82nd floor when it collapsed and rode it down.
Are you sure that interview wasn’t a hoax? By the time the destruction reached the 82 floor, there would have been thousands of tonnes of material coming down on him. I heard of that interview too, but don’t you think we’d be hearing more from that guy if it really happened? That would be the miracle story of the whole disaster.
If you’ve been reading the news reports, the rescuers aren’t even finding whole bodies. The bodies they’ve found so far were from people killed by falling debris from the ground. They are saying that the tower itself is pretty much rubble and DUST. Everything was completely pulverized by the incredible force of what happened.
As for the tower coming down slowly, it sure didn’t look that way to me. How many seconds did it take for that building to be on the ground? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? For 1100 feet of building to collapse? If it were 1100 feet high and took 30 seconds to hit the ground, then it travelled at an average speed of maybe 35 fps, or about 51 mph. But I don’t think it took anywhere near that long. I thought it was on the ground in about 10 seconds.
Just free-falling from the top of the tower probably takes close to 15 seconds or so. It came down FAST.