# Parachuting from 23 miles up. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 6, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872 "2012-10-06T02:35:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Engineer\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@Engineer\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Engineer_Dude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/61 "2012-10-09T17:52:15Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Terminal velocity is dependent on the density of the air. If someone free-falls from high enough, their terminal velocity could well be supersonic. > > As the person continues to fall to the Earth and the air gets more dense, their terminal velocity will steadily decrease. So he’s going to be looking down and moving toward the Earth, yet accelerating slowly upward and it’ll actually feel to him like he’s rising due to the upward acceleration. Crazy. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/62 "2012-10-09T18:01:54Z")
The commentator did a nice job of explaining what happened through the day. Apparently there was some kind of radio problem in addition to the weather. You have to wonder about whether it makes sense for a company like Red Bull to sponsor these kind of events. If it doesn’t happen tomorrow they will have wasted an awful lot of money for nothing. No to mention the negative publicity if something were to happen to Baumgartner. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/63 "2012-10-09T18:10:17Z")
That looked nasty when the balloon was getting whipped around. I wonder if it was damaged. Good thing they have a backup! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/64 "2012-10-09T18:22:37Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > …You have to wonder about whether it makes sense for a company like Red Bull to sponsor these kind of events. If it doesn’t happen tomorrow they will have wasted an awful lot of money for nothing. No to mention the negative publicity if something were to happen to Baumgartner. Yeah, that’s what I was asking myself when I first read about this morning – but on the flip-side, if not RedBull, who? In this particular case/stunt I think the fact that the guy – [Baumgartner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Baumgartner) – is an Austrian iconic figure factors into [**their decision**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Mateschitz). What I still don’t quite get (or rather get _my head around_) is just how much profit this company makes! They kind of make Oil-zillionairs look like paupers in public eye. I mean _two F1 teams_ on top of all the other crap? Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/65 "2012-10-10T01:18:50Z")
Any word on the next attempt? ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/66 "2012-10-10T02:05:34Z")
Not before Thursday morning according to [this site](http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-10/watch-felix-baumgartner-skydive-stratosphere-right-here): > [@](#): > > The earliest window would be on Thursday for two reasons: 1) weather, and 2) the crew shouldn’t work through another night. And thanks to **AaronX** for that link; they have better updates than the Red Bull Stratos page. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/67 "2012-10-10T03:41:00Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > … until he reaches terminal velocity, he has very little to no control. While he has limited ability to exert control, the air has limited ability to exert force on him. As one increases, so does the other. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/68 "2012-10-10T05:12:22Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > While he has limited ability to exert control, the air has limited ability to exert force on him. As one increases, so does the other. At the moment he drops from the balloon he won’t be entirely stable and will have very little air to use to stabilise himself. This is different from a normal parachutist who has plenty of air density to work with to help stabilise any initial spin induced by the process of jumping out of the aeroplane/balloon. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/69 "2012-10-10T11:34:12Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > While he has limited ability to exert control, the air has limited ability to exert force on him. As one increases, so does the other. Exactly! So you see my point. ‘The air has limited ability to exert force on him’ and counteract his momentum on exit. **Richard Pearse** is correct: > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > At the moment he drops from the balloon he won’t be entirely stable and will have very little air to use to stabilise himself. This is different from a normal parachutist who has plenty of air density to work with to help stabilise any initial spin induced by the process of jumping out of the aeroplane/balloon. Momentum from his exit jump and gravity are the factors initially influencing his freefall. Wind resistance is not a factor until he gets closer to the ground. That’s why his exit technique is important, as I stated upthread (post #39). A head-high “bunny hop” is what he wants. It’s the same technique used in BASE jumping, and Baumgartner has a lot of experience at that. And I’m certain he has been rehearsing that hop countless times as part of his training. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/70 "2012-10-10T14:31:04Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > Exactly! So you see my point. Actually, I think I disagree with your point that he could go into a spin from which he can’t recover. By the time his airspeed can produce forces that could lead to a troublesome spin, he can generate forces that counteract any spin, and thus can achieve a stable descent. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/71 "2012-10-10T14:41:20Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Actually, I think I disagree with your point that he could go into a spin from which he can’t recover. By the time his airspeed can produce forces that could lead to a troublesome spin, he can generate forces that counteract any spin, and thus can achieve a stable descent. I think the key word there is “could”. I already stated that I don’t think it is likely. I think Baumgartner’s chances of success are good. Are you saying you think it’s impossible? Apparently the Red Bull Stratos team considers it a possibility or they wouldn’t have installed the drogue chute I described in post #33: > [@](#): > > If Felix becomes unstable, he may need the drogue chute to keep from spinning uncontrollably. However, in his quest to break the sound barrier, he doesn’t want to deploy a drogue unless absolutely necessary, as it could slow him down. [Quote source] ([http://www.redbullstratos.com/technology/parachute/](http://www.redbullstratos.com/technology/parachute/)) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/72 "2012-10-10T15:13:27Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > Are you saying you think it’s impossible? No - I don’t think a spin is impossible. For example, if he somehow loses consciousness he could be in a “pro-spin” configuration from which the drogue chute system (with its G-based automatic deployment feature) could save him. What I dispute is that the thin atmosphere could lead to a situation where a rapid spin develops sooner than he (if conscious) is able to exert control. Unless he leaves the balloon capsule with lots of angular momentum (which I suspect _is_ impossible), a spin can result only from aerodynamic forces - which are also the source of his control. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/73 "2012-10-10T16:44:25Z")
Some things that could lead to a spin on exit: -Bumping the side of the capsule. -Slipping and falling off the step before he is ready to jump. -A claustrophobia-induced panic attack leads Felix to completely blow the exit and jump off sideways with a twist. Remember, Baumgartner had to undergo psychological conditioning to overcome his claustrophobia, as described [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/science/fearless-felix-baumgartner-to-try-to-become-first-sky-diver-to-break-sound-barrier.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0) (link courtesy of **Lantern** in post #38). Admittedly these scenarios are unlikely and probably would not result in a _rapid_ spin. But I am extremely reluctant to declare it impossible. However unlikely, one of them (or something else I haven’t thought of) could conceivably happen. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/74 "2012-10-10T17:28:00Z")
In this context, I’m thinking of a spin as involving a rate of rotation sufficient to lead to problems. Even if you were trying to do so, it seems extremely unlikely that it’s possible to depart the balloon capsule with anything like enough angular momentum to cause such: No exit gyrations could create a spin capable of producing 3.5G (which is given as the level at which the drogue automatically deploys) - that looks like it could result only from significant aerodynamic forces, which a competent skydiver (who’s conscious) could easily counteract. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/75 "2012-10-10T18:09:22Z")
If he jumps tomorrow at 1:14pm, it’ll be 10/11/12 13:14…I wonder if that was the plan all along… ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/76 "2012-10-10T19:13:58Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > In this context, I’m thinking of a spin as involving a rate of rotation sufficient to lead to problems. > > Even if you were trying to do so, it seems extremely unlikely that it’s possible to depart the balloon capsule with anything like enough angular momentum to cause such: No exit gyrations could create a spin capable of producing 3.5G (which is given as the level at which the drogue automatically deploys) - that looks like it could result only from significant aerodynamic forces, which a competent skydiver (who’s conscious) could easily counteract. Well, we seem to have reached an impasse. We both agree it is unlikely, but I am unwilling to say it’s impossible just because at the moment I can’t think of a possible scenario. I concede. You win, **Xema!** > [@lost4life](#): > > If he jumps tomorrow at 1:14pm, it’ll be 10/11/12 13:14…I wonder if that was the plan all along… Now the Red Bull Stratos site is saying > [@](#): > > Next weather window to launch Felix Baumgartner opens Sunday, Oct. 14th. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/77 "2012-10-12T15:59:42Z")
Well, I think I can pretty much guarantee a successful launch on Sunday. I’m going camping in the mountains and won’t have any way to watch. The pessimist in me is saying “Of course that will be the day they launch.” My brother has a smart phone (mine is only reasonably bright) so if he gets a signal we could watch it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/78 "2012-10-14T01:37:25Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > If he jumps tomorrow at 1:14pm, it’ll be 10/11/12 13:14…I wonder if that was the plan all along… Probably not, but tomorrow is the 65th anniversary of breaking the speed of sound for the first time, by Chuck Yeager. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/79 "2012-10-14T02:08:33Z")
Countdown clock is running. Just under 10 hours from now so looks like 8 am Eastern time… 6 local (mountain) time. Of course I’ll be at a lacrosse tournament with no web access from 8 until about 6 tomorrow. Let me know how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872/80 "2012-10-14T14:49:33Z")
The countdown is at 25 minutes and the balloon is being inflated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parachuting-from-23-miles-up/636872.md?page=5)