# Parallels Between Nixon and Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724 "2013-05-19T05:03:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/21 "2013-05-29T15:09:49Z")
Personality-wise, I say Hillary Clinton is more Nixonian than anyone else we’ve seen recently. I’m generally a lefty and a fan of women, but I really don’t want her as President. Either Obama or Romney would have been better. (Of those two, meh, I’ll take Obama.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/22 "2013-05-29T15:25:14Z")
Nixon was paranoid and felt persecuted because he thought powerful, well-connected people hated him. That drove him to do some terrible things. Based on his comfort with (for example) the intelligence bureaucracy and bankers, I don’t think Obama works that way. Most of this discussion is ‘I don’t like Obama, therefore he’s like someone else I don’t like.’ > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > -Both were elected on vows to end wars started by previous administrations and while largely keeping their promises, at the same time controversially launched military interventions elsewhere-Cambodia for Nixon, and Libya along with expanded drone strikes for Obama. Yes, if you ignore all the details, the withdrawal from Afghanistan and some drone strikes are sort of similar to the Paris peace deal and Nixon’s secret bombing campaign in Cambodia. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/23 "2013-05-29T15:48:39Z")
Obama may not be corrupt himself, but he’s surrounded by a lot of very questionable people. If he’s ignorant of their doings, it’s almost certainly willful ignorance. For example, we now know that it was several IRS offices that were harassing conservative groups (not just the Cleveland office), and that the harrassment started in 2010, but the surge in Tea-Party-esque groups didn’t happen until 2011. It’s almost beyond question that the upper levels at the IRS must have known what was going on. The DOJ journalist probe must have green-lighted at the top levels of government; it’s simply not plausible that it wasn’t. If Obama didn’t know about this stuff, it’s because he’s actively sticking his head in the sand. Also, while Obama may not be able to close Guantanamo on his own authority, he sure as shit could order them to stop torturing people if he wanted to. And then there’s the drone strikes, which are after all nothing more than high-tech assassinations, which can and often do kill innocent civilians. Frankly, the best comparison might be to one of the presidents of Israel, whose philosophy seems to be, “I’m going to do what needs to be done, and if innocent people get trampled, then it sucks to be them.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/24 "2013-05-29T15:52:47Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Also, while Obama may not be able to close Guantanamo on his own authority, he sure as shit could order them to stop torturing people if he wanted to. He did. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/25 "2013-05-29T16:04:35Z")
The President doesn’t actively manage the IRS. In fact, they sort of stay away from it to an extent. I’m not saying he’s blameless. But to me it sounds like the IRS self-targeted at these people and didn’t tell anyone outside their circle. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/26 "2013-05-29T16:18:58Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > The DOJ journalist probe must have green-lighted at the top levels of government; it’s simply not plausible that it wasn’t. … > > Frankly, the best comparison might be to one of the presidents of Israel, whose philosophy seems to be, “I’m going to do what needs to be done, and if innocent people get trampled, then it sucks to be them.” You have complained before about [sensitive information](http://senegoid.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=588350) being put out into the open. Now the DoJ is investigating who leaked information that is damaging to our national security, but you find another way to blame Obama for something. Even one [respected journalist](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/circling-the-media-wagons/2013/05/27/4f80aeec-c4aa-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_print.html) is telling people in his profession to get a grip. Furthermore, you previously defended the Bush Administration’s [firing of US Attorneys](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=412550) which the DoJ’s Inspector General found to be “abitrary, fundamentally flawed,” and inappropriate and unjustified to boot. But you said Democrats are “making a mountain out of a molehill.” Based on your own posts, I believe you’re just looking to complain about Obama, regardless of the substance. Why should we take any of your partisan comments seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/27 "2013-05-29T17:26:35Z")
Yeah, the DOJ journo probe is almost as stupid a scandal as umbrellagate. How _dare_ the government trace leaks of sensitive information? Next thing they m,ight be prosecuting spies or something! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/28 "2013-05-29T17:45:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, the DOJ journo probe is almost as stupid a scandal as umbrellagate. How _dare_ the government trace leaks of sensitive information? Next thing they m,ight be prosecuting spies or something! Tracing leaks is appropriate and it’s to be expected. They’re being overzealous about it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/29 "2013-05-29T17:47:16Z")
How so? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/30 "2013-05-29T18:07:26Z")
Bob Shrum made the Carter comparison in today’s op-ed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/31 "2013-05-29T18:21:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How so? They’re being overly broad in their searches, and my understand is that they’re not supposed to go on fishing expeditions like this- they’re supposed to review these kinds of records only if they know what they’re looking for. The fact that they went through months of phone records and emails and even labeled the Fox reporter as an unindicted co-conspirator (and then didn’t pursue charges) suggests they were casting the widest net they could and hoping they’d stumble across something. That’s not how that is supposed to work. > [@adaher](#): > > Bob Shrum made the Carter comparison in today’s op-ed. So what? Republicans have been comparing Obama to Carter since before he even took office, and Shrum never met a campaign he couldn’t lose. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/32 "2013-05-29T18:29:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They’re being overly broad in their searches, and my understand is that they’re not supposed to go on fishing expeditions like this- they’re supposed to review these kinds of records only if they know what they’re looking for. The fact that they went through months of phone records and emails and even labeled the Fox reporter as an unindicted co-conspirator (and then didn’t pursue charges) suggests they were casting the widest net they could and hoping they’d stumble across something. That’s not how that is supposed to work. It’s on a different case, but did you read the article I linked to earlier (see “respected journalist”)? That doesn’t sound like a fishing expedition at all. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/33 "2013-05-29T18:30:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nixon was paranoid and felt persecuted because he thought powerful, well-connected people hated him. That drove him to do some terrible things. Based on his comfort with (for example) the intelligence bureaucracy and bankers, I don’t think Obama works that way. Most of this discussion is ‘I don’t like Obama, therefore he’s like someone else I don’t like.’ It’s more “I don’t like Obama, therefore he’s like someone else that people generally agree is unlikable.” It’s a terribly lame attempt to elicit equivalence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/34 "2013-05-29T18:53:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It’s on a different case, but did you read the article I linked to earlier (see “respected journalist”)? That doesn’t sound like a fishing expedition at all. That sounds better targeted, and it also does explain why the North Korea leak was an issue in the first place. With regard to the AP investigation he neglected to mention the fact that while there was a national security issue, the government had told the public there weren’t any known terrorist plots related to the Bin Laden anniversary- and that wasn’t true. Even if that’s not whistleblowing, it’s significant news. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/35 "2013-05-29T20:28:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds better targeted, and it also does explain why the North Korea leak was an issue in the first place. Actually, I seem to have made a mistake. You said that the government targeting of a Fox News journalist was wrong. I now believe that you were referring to Fox correspondent James Rosen. The article I linked to is, in fact, about the same journalist, James Rosen. So when you say that my article on James Rosen better explains why he was targeted, and that the targeting is perhaps reasonable, it sure sounds like you changed your mind on whether Rosen was unfairly targeted. Is that the case? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/36 "2013-05-29T20:54:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Actually, I seem to have made a mistake. You said that the government targeting of a Fox News journalist was wrong. I now believe that you were referring to Fox correspondent James Rosen. I was commenting on the Justice Department collecting phone records related to several Associated Press reporters and Rosen (and some of Rosen’s emails). > [@](#): > > The article I linked to is, in fact, about the same journalist, James Rosen. So when you say that my article on James Rosen better explains why he was targeted, and that the targeting is perhaps reasonable, it sure sounds like you changed your mind on whether Rosen was unfairly targeted. Is that the case? I didn’t say anything about unfair targeting. I said the investigations were unreasonably broad, and maybe that’s not the case for Rosen. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/37 "2013-05-29T21:52:06Z")
[The Truth About the Nixonian Presidency of Obama.](http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2013/05/24) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/38 "2013-05-29T22:10:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I actually think he’s more like Reagan. Not corrupt like Nixon, but a bystander in his own administration. Except he doesn’t have oncoming senility and a naive belief in the goodness of people as an excuse. So I think it’s more that he chooses to not want to know, just so long as his people are doing what he’d want done. > > For example, the IRS thing, that was known by his administration in June 2012, but apparently no one deigned to tell him. That’s the kind of thing you would have expected out of the Reagan administration. First of all, I’ve never seen a conservative talk about Reagan that way so thanks for the new experience. Second, I don’t think Obama needed to be told about this, because it’s a policy/procedural issue that can be handled at a much lower level than POTUS. Sure, there are concerns about how it looks, but I still believe (counter to evidence admittedly… 😉 )that the POTUS’s job involves “optics” only tangentially. He can delegate that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724/39 "2013-05-29T22:12:37Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Obama may not be corrupt himself, but he’s surrounded by a lot of very questionable people. Could you name a few, and tell us what makes them ‘very questionable people’? Hey, has anyone mentioned that they both had funny middle names? And that their middle names, and last names, had the same number of letters? And that their first and middle names had the same number of syllables? And they both graduated from law school? And both of them got married and had two daughters? The parallels are just _overwhelming_, I tell ya. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parallels-between-nixon-and-obama/658724.md?page=1)