# Paranoid Fantasy Made Real : Secret CIA Prison Network **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136 "2005-11-02T19:17:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/1 "2005-11-02T19:17:55Z")
[Link](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051102/us_nm/security_prisons_dc_6;_ylt=AuG3hxBl0nhRkIcWA0LnDNMTv5UB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The CIA has been hiding and interrogating al Qaeda captives at a secret facility in Eastern Europe, part of a covert global prison system that has included sites in eight countries and was set up after the September 11, 2001, attacks, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday. > \ > The newspaper, which said its report was based on information from U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement, said the existence and locations of the facilities were known only to a handful of officials in the United States and, usually, only to the president and a few top intelligence officers in each host country. > > The CIA has not acknowledged the existence of a secret prison network, the newspaper said. > \< snip \> > ‘BLACK SITES’ > > According to the Washington Post, the prisons are referred to as “black sites” in classified U.S. documents and virtually nothing is known about who the detainees are, how they are interrogated or about decisions on how long they will be held. > > About 30 major terrorism suspects have been held at black sites while more than 70 other detainees, considered less important, were delivered to foreign intelligence services under a process known as “rendition,” the paper said, citing U.S. and foreign intelligence sources. > > The top 30 al Qaeda prisoners are isolated from the outside world, have no recognized legal rights and no one outside the CIA is allowed to talk with or see them, the sources told the newspaper. > > The paper, citing several former and current intelligence and other U.S. government officials, said the CIA used such detention centers abroad because in the United States it is illegal to hold prisoners in such isolation. This is ridiculous. It’s like these people are determined to act out every paranoid fantasy anyone has ever had toward the government. A _secret network of prisons_ ? One where the inmates have no rights ? Has the government been taken over by Cobra Commander ? The Cigarette Smoking Man ? Once again, America proves just how vile and disgusting a country it is. We beat our chest about how moral we are, then we do something like this. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/2 "2005-11-02T19:36:52Z")
Have you been hiding under a rock for the past few years? This news is so old it needs Viagra just to take a piss. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/3 "2005-11-02T19:59:20Z")
It may be old, but it’s no less relevant. And I’d like a cite as to the last major publication that was as long and went into as much detail as this one did. There may have been a few, but not many. This is particularly important given that the McCain Amendment promises to hold the future actions of POTUS to higher scrutiny and accountability (which is W, naturally, will apply his first veto ever to its demise). And the more press and more exposure this gets, the more people will get outraged by something that may have been flying under their radar for too long. Also, maybe more [heroic members](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9865301/site/newsweek/) of our armed services will speak out against the abuses, since the government will be hard pressed to smear all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/4 "2005-11-02T20:25:43Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > It may be old, but it’s no less relevant. And I’d like a cite as to the last major publication that was as long and went into as much detail as this one did. There may have been a few, but not many. That’s why I posted it. I’d heard claims before, but this was the first time I saw an actual _news story_. Besides, I saw it on another board first, and _they_ hadn’t heard of it; obviously, it’s not universally known. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/5 "2005-11-02T20:39:49Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Have you been hiding under a rock for the past few years? This news is so old it needs Viagra just to take a piss. Where else could they be keeping Victor Drazen? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/6 "2005-11-02T21:40:19Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > [Once again, America proves just how vile and disgusting a country it is. We beat our chest about how moral we are, then we do something like this. Okay, pause… breathe… Just a respectful request that such a generalization as this not stand unchallenged. A country’s worth is not entirely identical to the actions of its government. A worthwhile country (or at least a non-vile and non-disgusting one) does not have to be perfect to still remain worthwhile. And one of the things that gives this country worth is that there is at least the potential for angry citizens such as yourself to force a change. It is frustrating to most of our better natures, and I may understand how you feel (am I being too nice for the Pit?). Let’s give this story a chance to be aired in public and see what happens. I believe it is getting some play, as I was speeding past a TV in the lobby of my company and I believe I saw something on CNN about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/7 "2005-11-02T22:07:20Z")
Americans love this stuff. Explains how they vote. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/8 "2005-11-02T22:09:56Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Americans love this stuff. Explains how they vote. Which is why I call _America_ disgusting, and not just the government. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/9 "2005-11-02T22:44:37Z")
You’ve got to wonder just who it is they’re keeping in these black prisons after yesterday’s revelation that Omar al-Faruq, al Qaeda’s senior operative in Southeast Asia, [escaped from the regular old high security hoosegow at Bagram Air Base](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051102/ts_nm/afghan_usa_escape_dc). Of course, a cynical person might also wonder at the coincidence of al-Faruq’s escape messing up a torture trial, but that road just leads to depressing speculations. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/10 "2005-11-02T23:00:35Z")
(inserts preemptive ‘if you’re not a terrorist you don’t have to worry’ idiotic comment) -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/11 "2005-11-02T23:19:24Z")
I’m just gonna stir the pot here. These people are out to kill all non-Muslims, _and_ all muslims who don’t happen to agree with their specific beliefs. That means you (yes, YOU) and me. These fuckers will stop at nothing. They will bomb anywhere and everywhere, they will kill children, they have no respect for human life, they do not recognize the governments or laws or human rights of anyone else, and they believe that killing will only bring them glory and bring them closer to their god. Is it really so bad that we take the ringleaders of this insanity out of the fucking picture? Maybe they don’t even deserve a “fair trial” (the concept of which has been a fucking joke for a long time anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/12 "2005-11-02T23:29:36Z")
Are you talking about terrorists or the CIA? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/13 "2005-11-02T23:30:22Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > I’m just gonna stir the pot here. These people are out to kill all non-Muslims, _and_ all muslims who don’t happen to agree with their specific beliefs. That means you (yes, YOU) and me. These fuckers will stop at nothing. They will bomb anywhere and everywhere, they will kill children, they have no respect for human life, they do not recognize the governments or laws or human rights of anyone else, and they believe that killing will only bring them glory and bring them closer to their god. Is it really so bad that we take the ringleaders of this insanity out of the fucking picture? Maybe they don’t even deserve a “fair trial” (the concept of which has been a fucking joke for a long time anyway.) First, we appear to be just as bad, so your speech rings a bit hollow. Second, what makes you think they really are terrorists, without a trial ? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/14 "2005-11-02T23:38:46Z")
> [@](#): > > First, we appear to be just as bad, so your speech rings a bit hollow. Let’s see. Does the US… bomb anywhere and everywhere? No kill children? No have no respect for human life? No not recognize the governments or laws or human rights of anyone else? No believe that killing will only bring them glory? Nope and believe that killing will bring them closer to their god? No. So I’d have to completely disagree with you there. As to why I’d think they are terrorists, from the article in the OP: > [@](#): > > About 30 major terrorism suspects have been held at black sites while more than 70 other detainees, considered less important, were delivered to foreign intelligence services under a process known as “rendition,” the paper said, citing U.S. and foreign intelligence sources. > > The top 30 al Qaeda prisoners are isolated from the outside world, have no recognized legal rights and no one outside the CIA is allowed to talk with or see them, the sources told the newspaper. Of course there could be non-Al Qaeda prisoners and we’d never know. But I’m talking about the people referred to in the article. Doesn’t the world deserve to be protected from these maniacs even if it means that we have to rescind all of their rights? Aren’t there always a few exceptions to the rule? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/15 "2005-11-02T23:41:36Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > I’m just gonna stir the pot here. These people are out to kill all non-Muslims, _and_ all muslims who don’t happen to agree with their specific beliefs. That means you (yes, YOU) and me. These fuckers will stop at nothing. They will bomb anywhere and everywhere, they will kill children, they have no respect for human life, they do not recognize the governments or laws or human rights of anyone else, and they believe that killing will only bring them glory and bring them closer to their god. Is it really so bad that we take the ringleaders of this insanity out of the fucking picture? Maybe they don’t even deserve a “fair trial” (the concept of which has been a fucking joke for a long time anyway.) Even the new Iraqi government does not believe we are infallible: > **[Gunmen kill schoolteachers in Iraq](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/26/iraq.schoolsworldwide)** > > · Hundreds of Abu Ghraib prisoners freed· 10 killed at police checkpoint > [@](#): > > US forces and the Iraqi government today started to release 1,000 detainees from the notorious Abu Ghraib prison to mark the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which begins next week, in an attempt to win over moderates in the country. > > The first 500 prisoners, who are not thought to have been charged or convicted of any crime, were driven out of the prison on public buses this morning. The rest would be freed later this week, the US military said, stressing that none of those let out had faced allegations of serious or violent crimes. > > The prisoner release appeared to be part of the Iraqi government’s effort to persuade citizens, especially the Sunni minority, to vote in the October 15 national referendum on Iraq’s draft constitution. > > … > > The release came at the request of Sunni representatives taking part in constitutional talks. The officials asked the Iraqi government to start releasing thousands of prisoners who have been languishing in the jail for months without charge. ---
**Author:** ![Aceospades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Aceospades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aceospades)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/16 "2005-11-02T23:43:03Z")
How does the quote go? “You can learn about a country by studying their prisons.” Or something like that ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/17 "2005-11-02T23:43:13Z")
you fail to see the word “Suspects” apparently. Keep in mind the percentages of folks who ended up in AbuGarib as an “oops, my bad”. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/18 "2005-11-02T23:56:14Z")
> [@wring](#): > > you fail to see the word “Suspects” apparently. Keep in mind the percentages of folks who ended up in AbuGarib as an “oops, my bad”. What percentage would that be? And I don’t fail to see the word suspects. I’m just suggesting that if the safety of thousands and thousands of people around the world can be secured by detaining 30 major suspects, is that really so bad? Or do we let thousands die and terror reign because of the “rights” of a few people who can barely be qualified as sane? ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/19 "2005-11-03T00:01:26Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > These fuckers will stop at nothing. > \ > Maybe they don’t even deserve a “fair trial” Why should they be kept in secret overseas CIA prisons without trial? Because they’re evil, ruthless, murderous motherfuckers. How do we _know_ they’re evil, ruthless, murderous motherfuckers? The CIA’s keeping them in secret overseas prisons without trial. _Duh._ ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136/20 "2005-11-03T00:04:18Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > Is it really so bad that we take the ringleaders of this insanity out of the fucking picture? Maybe they don’t even deserve a “fair trial” (the concept of which has been a fucking joke for a long time anyway.) It would be nice. When are we gonna get to that? I hope before go after some more “WMD’s”. As for a fair trial, niether do counterrevolutionaries capitalist swine, trying to destory our nation. Just send them off to the gulag. What? Of course, they’re guilty. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in the gulag. Are you suggesting your goverment has made a mistake, comrade? Perhaps you’re a counterevolutionary are well. Prove to me that you’re not. I do find it incredibly ironic and disturbing is that some people who bitch about authoritarian regimes are the ones who seem to want to implement one here, because otherwise the terrorists will kill us all and eat our babies and rape our fathers, you unpatriotic hippy! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paranoid-fantasy-made-real-secret-cia-prison-network/329136.md?page=2)