Please, show us where Randi “admits to psi ability.”
You can read a detailed analysis of the fundamental flaws of the DUke University studies here.
If you are referring to The Amazing Randi admitting that he has psi ability, I’m calling BS on that. Put up a cite for that or shut it up.
If you are meaning that he acknowledges that psi ability is a possibility then I agree that he does. However, he’s quite outspoken about saying that he’s never seen any good evidence of it.
I’m sorry, the correct site for my cite about the Duke studies is this one.
“Einstein said it: “No amount of experimentation will ever prove me right, but ONE experiment can prove me wrong.” That one experiment has never been produced. The one experiment that proves me wrong in my belief that psychic/supernatural/occult powers or forces do not exist, has not emerged in the hundreds already done. Until that is produced, I’m justified in my belief, and the JREF holds onto the million dollars . . . But I’m prepared to be shown wrong, as Einstein was. Are you?”
From Randi’s column on his website, dated August 20, 2000 (emphasis added) I am also prepared to be shown wrong, if someone provides a quote from Randi in which he claims psi does exist.
You know that part on the SD intro about fighting ignorance and “It’s taking longer than we thought”? If you ever wondered why, it’s because of posts like this. What’s the point of spending the time trying to write a reasonably lengthy, factual, helpful answer when this is the response? I wonder if lekatt has the foggiest notion what ‘proof’ means, or what is involved in ‘proving’ something?
I was not trying to prove anything, and in this context ‘proof’ is not something that can be provided in a post on a message board. What I was doing was providing accurate information. Take it or leave it, up to you. If you want ‘proof’ about anything I’ve said, you’re going to need to be ready to do an awful lot of first-hand research. I’ve done it for 20 years, which is why I know what I’m talking about.
One kind of evidence (but not a proof, as such) that I know what I’m talking about is that I’ve done numerous Tv shows here (the UK) in and the US and elsewhere, in which I’ve been asked to demonstrate supposedly psychic powers under test conditions, and I’ve never yet failed to pass the test - but I always make it clear I am not psychic, and that psychic power is bunk.
But as I said before, I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m just presenting the facts (distilled from 20 years’ first-hand work) for anyone who wants it. If you want to live in psychic ga-ga land, be my guest. It’s your waste of time, not mine.
Just for the record, I’m pretty sure I know one heck of a lot more than you do about anything to do with the research at Duke university. The claim that they have fund any evidence for psi is sheer fantasy. As for Randi saying he believes in psi - no, he doesn’t, you’re wrong, and I know for certain you can’t find a single cite or quote to back that up. Put up or shut up. I know Randi very well, and he does not hold the view you ascribe to him.
Evidently, nobody believes you! I’m hoping you’re just seriously misinformed, and not just telling a downright lie just to slander Randi. Anyone that is familiar with Randi’s career, knows how bogus that statement is you just made. Have the courage to ante up what has been asked of you, and don’t get us anything from any of those two-bit cites hocus-pocus cites pretending to speak for him. You know where his cite is, and I have most of his books. Go…bring us back an exact quote from a credible source. Can’t wait to see what Rover digs up.
JZ
I watched an episode once. They presented The Dreamhouse(young copule is looking to buy a house. Wife has recurring, vivid dream of walking through a wonderful home. One day, they find the house. It’s out of their price range, but they make an offer anyway. To their surprise, the offer is accepted. The real estate agent explains that the owner is eager to sell/the house is hard to sell because it is haunted. When the seller meets the couple, he recognizes the wife as the immaterial woman who appears at night and walks through the house). They claimed the story was true and had happened in IIRC California in the 1980’s. I First read The Dreamhouse in a book of British folktales published in the 1960’s.
Thus, Beyond Belief claimed a folktale was an actual event. Can you give any reason that the show is a more credible source than the Weekly World News?
Re Randi-
As others have said, a psychic could insist that they remain anonymous and that the money go to charity. If they passed the test, Randi could anounce that an individual had proven that they were psychic, but not reveal the person’s identity.
RE-No Personal Gain Or Evil
Wrong. My own research has turned up numerous individuals who do just that. Project your Non-Corproreal-Consciousness-Field into a bank’s computers and you can do things that Non-Actualized hackers can only dream of. A Scientist can manipulate someone’s NCCF to heal neurological damage, or cure a disorder. But they can also kill, or lobotomize without leaving any physical scar.
More people believe in psi ability than don’t. Spiritual people outnumber skeptics 9 to 1 easily.
Here is Randi saying he believes in psychic ability on the Larry King show. The link to the whole show is below, he was shown up badly by the psychic.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0106/05/lkl.00.html
Here is some material from Duke, there is a great deal more. Now if you don’t agree with it, don’t tell me, just write the good doctors doing the research and tell them they don’t know what they are doing.
http://www.seanharribance.com/thepsychic.html
And then the psychics also have offered a million dollars to the skeptic who can prove life after death is false.
http://www.victorzammit.com/
I will stick with my original assessment, you just don’t know anything as to what you are talking about and putting out a lot of misinformation.
**Re Randi-
As others have said, a psychic could insist that they remain anonymous and that the money go to charity. If they passed the test, Randi could anounce that an individual had proven that they were psychic, but not reveal the person’s identity. **
We could always have Randi put a paper bag over their head if they are not looking for fame. We’ll just refer to him as the “Unknown Psychic.” 
It’ll also save the UP further embarrassment and shame.
JZ
Your own quote does not say what you claim. Can’t you even be consistent in the space of one paragraph? Admitting to the possibility is not the same as a claim that something does exist. Twist it, spin it, distort as much as you like. You are simply wrong.
Well, lekatt, this isn’t good enough. Just did a quick read of it, and I didn’t find the specific quote of Randi saying he believed in psychic ability here. Only him admitting that there might be a possibility for it, and that he hadn’t found proof of it yet. Please be more specific with what exactly you’re referring to. Don’t expect us to wade though miles of transcript.
JZ
Very funny.
People don’t try for the money because they believe they won’t be treated honesty. Even the professors at the University of Colorado turned Randi down, saying he might not play fairly.
**
Cite?
Second, how is this relevant? You were asked for a cite on what James Randi believes. Not an uncited statistic on beliefs of the general public.
**There is a BIG difference between believing in the possibility that a thing may exist, and believing that it exists.
EG There is a difference between believing that is possible the defendant is innocent, and believing that the defendant is innocent.
Further, the transcript has been dissected and the "psychic"s readings analysed in the Contact With The Great Beyond thread.
Right back at ya.
The problem is, lekatt, you don’t even have the courage to admit when you’re wrong. Unless of course, you truly cannot comprehend and distinguish the difference between someone admiting psychic ability exists, and for someone only admitting the possibility of it.
JZ
Do you even read your own cites? There is no mention of the University of Colorado in the entire Victor Zammit site, if this Google search is correct. (Google can search a site by entering a search term “Colorado” with this instruction “site:www.siteIwanttosearch.com”.) Perhaps I’m wrong, perhaps you could provide better directions to this bit of information.
You cited Zammit in the Great Beyond thread. He was discredited and several of his claims about Randi were shown to be false.
Reposting the same discredited cites in this thread will achieve the same results it did in that thread.
For Example-
Zammit claims that skeptics have argued that John Edward get his results purely by chance. He then has a statistician give the odds against Edwards getting his information by chance alone. This is a strawman argument. Randi, SimonX, myself and the others have NEVER claimed that Edward was relying purely on chance. We have claimed that he uses cold readings, editing, audience plants, prerecorded information on audience members, some minor reliance on statistics(eg the annual death rates of cancer and heart disease make ‘it was some illness in the chest’ a question very likely to draw a hit.
Zammit wants the testee to be able to dictate the conditions of the test. Randi already does this. The foundation and the testee jointly agree on conditions before the test takes place.
[Johnathan Frakes Beyond Belief Voice] Victor Zammit, the only man telling the truth about Randi? Or liar spouting falsehoods and logical fallacies? If you guessed Zammit’s claims were fiction…you were right.[/Johnathan Frakes]
I would think that someone offering up over a million dollar prize to anyone offering up proof for a positive result on ESP or any other supernatural ability, should give the average reader a clue as to what Randi’s opinion is upon the subject. :rolleyes:
JZ
by lekatt:
Even those who adhere to the scientific method make mistakes as do those who consider themselves spiritual.
Are you thinking of “skeptic” as an anti-spiritual word perhaps?
I am an open-minded skeptic about spirtual issues. I am also a spiritual-minded person who doesn’t buy into every mystical notion. I see a lot of books about spiritual concepts that make claims that "scientific research now shows that (fill in the blank) without referencing the research. Those are the spiritual writers that I am most wary of.
I don’t consider absolute proof except in math.
Yeah…I agree with John Zahn. Randi is just trying to make the point that he is open-minded…i.e., that he hasn’t made a definite decision on something that he technically cannot know for sure one way or the other.
It’s like if you asked me if I think there is a possibility that god exists, I would have to say that sure I think there is a possibility. But, if you asked me what my opinion was on the existence of god, I would tell you that I find the idea that man created god way more compelling than the idea that god created man.
Anyway, as we have discussed in previous threads, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The evidence for psychic phenomena fall way short of being extraordinary…At best they are slight statistical deviations on experiments where there are very factors that have not been controlled as well as they might need to be to ensure such slight deviations can occur for other reasons.
And, the onus is on those who believe in psychic ability to demonstrate it to the satisfaction of the scientific community. I can’t go out and say that I believe that there are small pink unicorns floating through space and then expect people to waste their time proving that I am wrong. It is up to me to provide compelling and reproducible evidence. It also helps if I have some sort of theoretical explanation that seems compelling of how this phenomena occurs.
The bottom line: skeptics have absolutely no proof there is not spiritual experiences, and never will.
What do the skeptics do for humanity? If you don’t believe in God or your own personal experience what do you belive in to get through the hard times of life, seems to me a lot of you have difficulties. How do you help yourself? What is your anchor?
Psychics have all kind of organizations to help people, and for free.