# Pardons for Bribery? What Next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 1, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967 "2020-12-01T23:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/1 "2020-12-01T23:49:12Z")
Things just got very interesting: > **[Justice Department investigating potential presidential pardon bribery...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/presidential-pardon-justice-department/index.html)** > > The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the White House or related political committee in exchange for a presidential pardon, according to court records unsealed Tuesday in federal court. Are the line attorneys at the DOJ defying Barr? Or is Barr fully turning on Trump? Or is it someone else entirely whose life is about to be ruined? Either way, this is a brand new bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/2 "2020-12-02T00:15:49Z")
I heart this. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/3 "2020-12-02T00:20:41Z")
I foresee a long, long list of indictments going forward. The most surprising thing to me is that investigations were/are occurring under the _Barr_ DOJ. My understanding is that this investigation and indictment were in secret. Hard to think Barr wouldn’t know about them, but… maybe? Are there many, many more that are further along than we thought? God, I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/4 "2020-12-02T00:26:58Z")
I’m talking out of my ass here, but my impression is that Barr doesn’t have the time/ability to micromanage all of the various investigations that are going on at any given time in the justice department. So some investigator somewhere in the justice department might get a lead on the the bribery case and just run with it on his own, without news of it traveling all the way up to Barr. It may be that with the election over, and Trump on his way out, they feel safer bringing their investigation out into the open. ---
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/5 "2020-12-02T05:17:47Z")
I’m shocked. Shocked, I say. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/6 "2020-12-02T06:18:40Z")
Could Trump take bribes to issue pardons, and then subsequently issue additional pardons preventing the bribers from being charged with payment of said bribes (and then, of course, also pardon himself for accepting the bribes)? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/7 "2020-12-02T06:21:38Z")
Turtles all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/8 "2020-12-02T06:23:03Z")
That would not prevent state AGs from bringing charges. And the power of pardon hasnt been strongly tested in SCOTUS, I think a pardon due to a bribe might get tossed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/9 "2020-12-02T07:05:30Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m talking out of my ass here, but my impression is that Barr doesn’t have the time/ability to micromanage all of the various investigations that are going on at any given time in the justice department. So some investigator somewhere in the justice department might get a lead on the the bribery case and just run with it on his own, without news of it traveling all the way up to Barr. All this time Trump has been worrying about Deep State when he should have been keeping an eye on Deep Justice. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/10 "2020-12-02T14:02:40Z")
Let’s see, you pay a bribe to get a preemptive pardon which pardons you from bribery. Seems very meta. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/11 "2020-12-02T14:08:47Z")
If there’s one thing we have learned during Donnie’s so-called administration, it’s never to ask, “What next?” 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/12 "2020-12-02T14:29:46Z")
Genuine factual question. The Constitution confers pardon authority on the President with the following language. > The President […] shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. That’s it. That’s all it says. The only exception is in matters of impeachment. It does not say the President is prohibited from offering a pardon in exchange for financial consideration, or on any other basis. So if someone were to say to the President, “I will write you a million dollar check if you pardon me,” and the President says, “Done deal,” what, specifically, would be the legal basis for an objection? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/13 "2020-12-02T15:08:11Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > what, specifically, would be the legal basis for an objection?- And, in this case, WHO would object? ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/14 "2020-12-02T15:24:58Z")
28th Amendment: > “No pardon or reprieve may be issued to any person for any offense for which the president could have been indicted, charged or held liable.” And what about 18 U.S. Code § 201? > **[18 U.S. Code § 201 - Bribery of public officials and witnesses](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/201)** I found this article from USAToday a good read on the self-pardon issue and bribery for pardons. > **[What to do about that pardon Trump will grant himself](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/12/02/trump-self-pardon-corruption-ethics-reforms-column/3777819001/)** > > There can be no higher priority for the Biden administration than repairing and strengthening our democratic institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/15 "2020-12-02T15:29:21Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > 28th Amendment: > > > “No pardon or reprieve may be issued to any person for any offense for which the president could have been indicted, charged or held liable.” Just so we’re clear, there is no ratified 28th Amendment. The 27th Amendment, dealing with Congressional pay, was the last to be ratified. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/16 "2020-12-02T15:29:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Turtles all the way down. Nope, they’re using _kompromat_, not bribes, to control him. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/17 "2020-12-02T15:39:01Z")
Ah–thanks, Dewey\_Finn. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/18 "2020-12-02T16:07:47Z")
The fact that Barr’s DOJ is pushing this leads me to the paranoid hunch that the suspect in this case – whoever he or she is – is someone the administration doesn’t or no longer likes. They’re willing to make an example of him/her to show that they’re not only above corruption but are actively fighting it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/19 "2020-12-02T16:09:36Z")
But in the pit of vipers that is the Trump White House, that doesn’t really narrow it down. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/20 "2020-12-02T16:11:14Z")
Where did you see that amendment listed or described? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967.md?page=2)