# Pardons for Bribery? What Next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 1, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967 "2020-12-01T23:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/61 "2020-12-03T15:03:13Z")
Is this true? The court system in D.C. is confusing on the best of days, but the Superior Court of D.C. appears to be a separate entity from the District Court of D.C. This attorney had some helpful information: [Court System in Washington, DC | DC Superior Court](https://criminallawyerwashingtondc.com/dc-court-system/#:~:text=Important%20Information%20about%20the%20DC%20Courts&text=This%20means%20that%20criminal%20cases,to%20as%20a%20district%20attorney). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/62 "2020-12-03T15:07:13Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Just a Bill? I wonder what that Bill would be called. He’s just a Bill, yes he’s only a Bill, and he’s sittin’ here on Capitol Hill… https://www.youtube.com/embed/FFroMQlKiag?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/63 "2020-12-03T15:14:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Cohen admits he was confused by Trump repeatedly telling him there’s always money in the banana stand. Thanks for the laugh. Too bad they burned the banana stand. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/64 "2020-12-03T15:21:33Z")
Quite right. Posting too late at night. They are separate courts. However, the key point is that DC is entirely under federal jurisdiction: Art. I, s. 8 provides that Congress has the power: > [@](#): > > To exercise **exclusive Legislation** in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States]([Washington, D.C. - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.)), … The District has its own criminal laws and the DC Superior Court, but those are all created by a combination of laws passed by Congress, not by any state law. So, if a crime is committed in the District, that is a federal crime and would be subject to the presidential pardon power. That was the point I was trying to make, a bit clumsily. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/65 "2020-12-03T16:06:47Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > The thread was started about a bribery for pardon scheme. That is what I was referring to when I said I don’t see a long list of indictments. I’m so sorry. I started the damn thread and I still misunderstood your query. I thought you were asking about who might qualify for pardons in general, and of course you weren’t! @Northern_Piper isn’t the only one here who shouldn’t post late at night after a hard work day. I agree with you, there will be far fewer indictments based solely on bribery-for-pardon charges – although I’m open to being surprised on that. Trump simply can’t seem to resist someone giving him money, and he loves his pardon power. Easiest money he ever made. Just sign a piece of paper and someone gives you a big pile of dough. I can still think of a couple, though. I won’t list their crimes/potential crimes, but I’ll name them: Elliot Broidy and Steve Wynn spring to mind. There are a number of people like that who are in big hot water and know Trump well enough to take a chance. @Northern_Piper, I’m so glad you clarified on the DC Superior Court. I thought I was losing my mind. I couldn’t help but wonder where residents of Washington DC went for domestic, juvenile, adoptions, probate and other court orders. I was already clear on district courts and circuit courts, but the courts in Washington DC can and do confuse me. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/66 "2020-12-03T16:29:09Z")
Indeed. I appreciate the clarification as well. In my mind, this is yet another argument for D.C. statehood, but this is not the thread for that discussion. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/67 "2020-12-03T16:47:34Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m so sorry. Eh, been there, done that. 🙂 As far as who may be involved, as I said, I wouldn’t be able to give you a name, but I do think that it will be someone like you mention, that is, not an admin level person, but some flunky or another who wanted to keep him/herself on Trump’s radar. You know, a “friend” of Trump whom Trump would throw under the bus yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/68 "2020-12-03T16:56:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Irony is that they call _us_ “sheeple”. There is much projection among Trump supporters. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/69 "2020-12-03T17:08:18Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > > Just a Bill? I wonder what that Bill would be called. > > He’s just a Bill, yes he’s only a Bill, and he’s sittin’ here on Capitol Hill… I can’t believe it falls to me hours later to make the obvious connection. Once disbarred, Bill Barr just becomes Bill. Or, more precisely, Mister Bill. As in Oooh Nooo! If there is any justice left in the Justice department he will receive so many smitings that it’ll make the actual Mr. Bill’s career seem completely smash-free. https://www.youtube.com/embed/b3E_WARspaU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/70 "2020-12-03T17:19:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Once disbarred, Bill Barr just becomes Bill. Or, more precisely, Mister Bill. As in Oooh Nooo! > > If there is any justice left in the Justice department he will receive so many smitings that it’ll make the actual Mr. Bill’s career seem completely smash-free. “Here comes Mr. Bill’s pardon!” ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/71 "2020-12-03T17:19:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I can’t believe it falls to me hours later to make the obvious connection. > > Once disbarred, Bill Barr just becomes Bill. Or, more precisely, Mister Bill. As in Oooh Nooo! > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > You mean Bill Barr coud be disbarred? What would be left of him then? Just a Bill? I wonder what that Bill would be called. I hope the acronym sounds obscene and belittling. Yeah, I am really jarred that my pun-post was not celebrated as the masterstoke it was intended to be. I am inconsolable. Well… I’ll cry myself to sleep aftera couple of whiskys, someday I’ll get over it. Thanks for trying, though 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/72 "2020-12-03T17:20:05Z")
I have noticed Trumpanzees, and Republicans in general, seem to take where they are the weakest and accuse their opponents of it. “She has anger in her heart” was the first time I really noticed it and I have seen it constantly since then. I hope people are taking note of all the ways Republicans are saying there is voter fraud. When they try it and you need to find it, go down that list. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/73 "2020-12-04T14:27:01Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I hope people are taking note of all the ways Republicans are saying there is voter fraud. When they try it and you need to find it, go down that list. I’ve said from the beginning that the reason the Republicans know there will be voter fraud is because that is what _they_ do. Witness North Carolina’s election scandal in 2018. When Donald Trump says there will be massive voter fraud, he’s not talking about the Democrats, he’s listing the tactics that the Republicans will be using. > [@Cervaise](#): > > One of the many unpleasant discoveries of the Trump administration is that many of the prescribed limitations on the behavior of elected officials specifically exclude the office of the President, and the only reason it hasn’t been an issue before now is that the previous officeholders haven’t been conscienceless anal warts who didn’t give a shit about propriety. Like, for just one of a hundred examples, members of Congress are obliged to use blind trusts to avoid conflicts of interest in their investment portfolios, but the President is not encompassed by the rule. You will forgive me if I am skeptical that the anti-bribery statute to which you allude contemplates these sorts of previously-unthinkable transgressions. You are spot on. > [@RickJay](#): > > Donald Trump selling a pardon would be the least surprising crime ever committed in the history of crime. I would honestly be floored, just absolutely shocked, if he HADN’T sold a pardon or three. No doubt you are right. Trump is corrupt to the core. Money is how you track the winner, that’s why he has to ~~claim to~~ be the richest man in the room. He has likely used exactly those kinds of “negotiation tactics” throughout is business career. “You are saying I have the exclusive power to grant Pardons, that there is no oversight and no appeal? Cha-ching!” > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Cohen admits he was confused by Trump repeatedly telling him there’s always money in the banana stand. Had to look that up. > [@Kimera757](#): > > They might have something on tape. Maybe he peeped on underage girls at Miss Universe in Russia, and they have that on video, as an example. Maybe they have something he did in his hotel room on video. I misread that as “Maybe he _peed_ on underage girls…”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/74 "2020-12-04T19:29:39Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > “She has anger in her heart” I’m not a towel - you’re a towel! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/75 "2020-12-06T15:56:28Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > As far as who may be involved, as I said, I wouldn’t be able to give you a name, but I do think that it will be someone like you mention, that is, not an admin level person, but some flunky or another who wanted to keep him/herself on Trump’s radar. You know, a “friend” of Trump whom Trump would throw under the bus yesterday. And the people involved have been named. > **[DOJ Investigating ‘Bribery-for-Pardon’ Scheme Involving White House](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/justice-department-probes-bribery-for-trump-pardon-scheme.html)** > > GOP fundraiser Elliott Broidy and Jared Kushner’s lawyer were reportedly enlisted in a plot to trade clemency for an ally for a “substantial” sum. No indication that any bribe was ever actually paid. No indication that Trump was involved, or had any knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/76 "2020-12-06T17:59:57Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And the people involved have been named. _The initial 20-page of heavily-redacted documents provide little information on the parties involved._ > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No indication that any bribe was ever actually paid. No indication that Trump was involved, or had any knowledge. Since only the President can pardon, trump would have to be involved at some time, no? Mind you, it might not have gotten to that stage yet. Note that “Justice Department prosecutors”- who work for the President, and _"It is not clear if anyone approached the White House or paid a supposed bribe. The documents do not indicate if White House officials were aware of the effort, let alone that Trump was involved._" So, I think we read a different cite that the one you posted. You drew different conclusions. _people involved have been named:_ No, the document was redacted. But yes _" the New York Times reported that the plot may have involved…"_ note that word “may”. _No indication that any bribe was ever actually paid._ No, “It is not clear if anyone… paid a supposed bribe” So, a bribe may or may not have been paid, but we dont have any clear evidence yet. _No indication that Trump was involved, or had any knowledge._ No, “It is not clear if anyone approached the White House or paid a supposed bribe. The documents do not indicate if White House officials were aware of the effort, let alone that Trump was involved.” So we dont know yet about the President. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/77 "2020-12-06T19:23:17Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No indication that any bribe was ever actually paid. No indication that Trump was involved, or had any knowledge. I’m not particularly surprised that no involvement has been found. I’ve heard Trump is in massive debt, but do not know if this is the case. But if so, I don’t imagine whatever amount he may have been offered would help much, nor that he would think selling pardons would help him much. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/78 "2020-12-06T23:28:09Z")
> [@BadSamaritan](#): > > Would State AGs have anything to work with? If, for example, I were going to the slammer for Federal Tax Evasion, but bribed, say, Jared for a pardon for both tax evasion and bribing Jared, would the NJ AG (where Jared and I were when I did the crime) have any thing they could do? Presumably you would have also evaded NJ state taxes (I assume they have an income tax) and the NJ AG could certainly go after that. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/79 "2020-12-07T14:56:12Z")
Don’t forget to declare the bribe received as income on your NJ taxes. Lots of crooks forget that step and it often comes back to bite them. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967/80 "2020-12-08T06:04:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Don’t forget to declare the bribe received as income on your NJ taxes. Lots of crooks forget that step and it often comes back to bite them So Tony Soprano could deduct bribes to the mayor/chief of police/ward alderman/chairperson of the PTA as business expenses? Was that a plot point in one of the episodes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pardons-for-bribery-what-next/926967.md?page=5)