# Parent Dopers: What Advice Do You Have for non-Parents? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937 "2013-10-22T16:19:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/41 "2013-10-23T12:55:02Z")
My advice is to remember that we are all doing this for the first time. Even if it’s your sixth kid, you’ve never had six kids before, and not that particular sixth kid. Seriously, we are all winging it, and given the stakes, somewhat terrified. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Sometimes I’d whisper to my wife “I see childless people” like I was the little kid in The Sixth Sense. People outside The Parent Zone had a sort of shimmery etherealness, like they were on a different plane of reality. Ha! I’ve only been a parent for a month, but I know exactly what you are talking to. I made it out to a get together the other day, and saw all the people moving about the city, and all I could think was “Who are these people? What are their lives? Such strange creatures, doing whatever they want after work…” ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/42 "2013-10-23T12:58:17Z")
Sometimes I’ll have to leave work early (or come in later) because my children need me. It doesn’t mean I’m doing fewer hours than the rest of the team, just that now and again work doesn’t come first and I’ll pick up my hours at home later. And yes, if your dog is ill and needs to visit the vet, or your elderly parent has a fall, you’ll get the same level of flexibility from me. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/43 "2013-10-23T14:38:15Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > If you remove your offending kids great, but most people now just don’t. > My child was very easygoing and I did not have to deal with any tantrums or screamy fits. She was expected to behave with manners, so she cheerfully complied. > Of course today’s children don’t have to get off my lawn, as now they are never allowed out unescorted, so they’d never be there in the first place. They are now tucked “safely” inside their houses or at their supervised activities. Oh, isn’t this the “princess, not-my-kid, my kid is perfect” parenting you were just complaining about? > [@AnaMen](#): > > Of course it’s not all parents everywhere. What is? > I am referring to the United States, for the most part, though I’ve seen it happening in other countries as well. What used to be fringe behavior has become normal. There are still plenty of people outside the norm, as hopefully there always will be. Wow. These kids these days, next thing you know they’ll be growing their hair past their collars and wearing bellbottoms. The world is going to hell in a handbasket, I tells ya. Back when I was a kid…blah, blah, blah… Note to non-parents, not all parenting is the same at all times, and all kids are different, all the time. There’s also a huge difference between gender, behaviour as well as single child and multiple siblings parenting. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/44 "2013-10-23T14:51:25Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Oh, isn’t this the “princess, not-my-kid, my kid is perfect” parenting you were just complaining about? No, my kid is laughably far from perfect. She just doesn’t behave in a way that is disturbing to strangers and never picked up that habit. No matter what else is wrong with her (don’t get me started!), I got that part right–or got lucky. The “my kid is perfect” attitude I’m talking about is the oblivious attitude that occurs while the kid is blatantly acting like a shit and the parents act like its cute or age-appropriate and thus ignorable. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/45 "2013-10-23T15:09:36Z")
My advice to people who don’t have kids and don’t particularly want to be around kids is to treat families with small children as though they are a swarm of hornets. Don’t mess with them and they probably won’t mess with you. If you see them someplace that they have a legitimate right to be in, just run away quickly to leave the area. If you see them someplace that they don’t have a right to be, alert the authorities to have them expeditiously removed. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/46 "2013-10-23T15:15:04Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > … Don’t mess with them and they probably won’t mess with you. If you see them someplace that they have a legitimate right to be in, just run away quickly to leave the area. If you see them someplace that they don’t have a right to be, alert the authorities to have them expeditiously removed. If it’s my property, I call an exterminator! ---
**Author:** ![amaguri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@amaguri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amaguri)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/47 "2013-10-23T15:30:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > By family type restaurant, I mean Chili’s, Olive Garden, local burger joints, etc… where children are commonly taken. If you’re unfortunate enough to plan your special dinners-out at one of those places and get torqued that a unruly toddler wrecked your evening, that’s your problem, not mine. Children are not rational creatures, but parents are (or at least should be.) If you have an inkling that your child is being unusually disruptive, you have an obligation to at least try to minimize the impact on other diners. That’s just being polite, plain and simple. I am a pretty patient person, but we had dinner the other night (at a reasonably upscale, non-family type restaurant) and there were two young kids who were screaming and shrieking for the duration of the meal. These were obviously unhappy kids, and the mom just ignored them. Worse still, she had a #$\*(@ nanny with her, and they just acted like nothing was happening. That is not fair to other diners. But I assume this thread was not intended to turn into a Pit thread, so maybe we should just leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/48 "2013-10-23T15:55:24Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > My advice is to remember that we are all doing this for the first time. Even if it’s your sixth kid, you’ve never had six kids before, and not that particular sixth kid. Seriously, we are all winging it, and given the stakes, somewhat terrified. > > Ha! I’ve only been a parent for a month, but I know exactly what you are talking to. I made it out to a get together the other day, and saw all the people moving about the city, and all I could think was “Who are these people? What are their lives? Such strange creatures, doing whatever they want after work…” Have you found the immense relief yet in getting over yourself? That was my most gratifying Moment after I had my daughter. About three months in I realized that I hadn’t been spending hours in my closet, hours at the gym, hours in front of a magnifying mirror, or wakeful nights wondering if I’d said the right thing, pining away for lost love, or all those other poetic but dead-end meanderings that occupied a brain better spent doing constructive things. One day, when she’s much older, I’ll thank my daughter for helping me get over myself. For now, though, I’ll just send a reassuring nod your way: you’re growing, even if you’re exhausted and every minute is consumed with tasks and milestones. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/49 "2013-10-23T16:15:36Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I’m long past this stage (mine are grown and gone), but I’d like to add one. > … > Sometimes there’s a reason we let them run wild. Uh…sorry, but I’m gonna call you out on that. Unless your kid has a mental disorder, they can be taught appropriate behavior. Here are some strategies: -Never ever ever buy them a treat that they’ve begged for, and point out that you don’t buy treats that are begged for. -Allow them to pick out a treat at the store if they show good behavior. Make this treat be something you were planning on buying anyway (maybe some chips, or some dried fruit, or a flavor of jam, or whatever), but they can choose which one. If they’re jerks at the store, skip that treat entirely. -Allow them to look at the candy if they put their hands behind their backs and keep their faces away from it. I’ve had multiple cashiers thank me for this one. When my daughter forgot and picked up a candy bar, I scooped her up and held her and commiserated about how she didn’t get to look at the candy this time. -If they behave in line, let them press the green button on the credit card machine. It does nothing but is immensely satisfying when you’re four, for some reason :). Your strategy retaliates on the minimum wage checkout clerks for a decision made by their regional manager. That’s unfair, and more importantly, unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/50 "2013-10-23T16:35:16Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Sorry, but you really don’t know what being a parent is like just because you watched your sisters kid for 2 years I know two women who think/thought they knew what raising kids was like, because they have worked in daycare centers. One of them is finding this out with her toddler; the other has had numerous miscarriages and IVF treatments, and refuses to accept that SHE.JUST.ISNT.SUPPOSED.TO.HAVE.CHILDREN. And considering some of her ideas about discipline, it’s probably just as well. I would never tell her that, however. p.s. One aspect of infertility treatment that isn’t discussed is when it works, and one or both of them regrets it. ☹ I have read about infertility clinics that give prospective clients a Baby Think It Over, and in a surprising number of cases, the BTIO is returned first thing the next morning and the couple never pursues further treatment. :eek: Wish I could find a link. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/51 "2013-10-23T16:39:33Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Here is a question from a non-parent Doper. If I am standing behind you in line, and I see your kid gearing up for a temper tantrum, sometimes I can distract them out of it by asking them (the kid) a question, or chatting to them about something. > > Sometimes this goes over well. Sometimes I get a scathing look from the parent. Can you tell me why? I thought I was helping! The kid has (usually) been distracted from whatever they were whining about, and everyone is peaceful. Did I miss something? is there something I don’t know? Well, speaking as a Dad… I’m afraid you’re not the only one who gets that response. I got it myself when I was single, and still do, when I’m not accompanied by my wife or son. In this day and age, people are so paranoid about pedophiles and kidnappers that any single male who talks to a kid is suspect. I confess, there have been times when I’ve stifled my instinct o soothe a crying child or help one who’s just fallen and hurt himself/herself, just because I’m worried my intentions will be misinterpreted. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/52 "2013-10-23T16:39:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Uh…sorry, but I’m gonna call you out on that. Unless your kid has a mental disorder, they can be taught appropriate behavior. Here are some strategies: > -Never ever ever buy them a treat that they’ve begged for, and point out that you don’t buy treats that are begged for. > -Allow them to pick out a treat at the store if they show good behavior. Make this treat be something you were planning on buying anyway (maybe some chips, or some dried fruit, or a flavor of jam, or whatever), but they can choose which one. If they’re jerks at the store, skip that treat entirely. > -Allow them to look at the candy if they put their hands behind their backs and keep their faces away from it. I’ve had multiple cashiers thank me for this one. When my daughter forgot and picked up a candy bar, I scooped her up and held her and commiserated about how she didn’t get to look at the candy this time. > -If they behave in line, let them press the green button on the credit card machine. It does nothing but is immensely satisfying when you’re four, for some reason :). > > Your strategy retaliates on the minimum wage checkout clerks for a decision made by their regional manager. That’s unfair, and more importantly, unnecessary. Over 30 years ago, when I was a teenager working at Target, I learned VERY quickly never to tell parents how well-behaved their children were, because they would always reply, “Come back in 10 minutes and you’ll be singing a different tune.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/53 "2013-10-23T16:40:31Z")
Are you joking? Anyone who works a full day in a daycare center, responsible for the well-being of multiple kids at a time for 8-10 hours straight, has a pretty damn good idea of what it’s like to have children. A really damn good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/54 "2013-10-23T16:52:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sattua] Don’t have kids unless you’re absolutely sure you want them. Then, don’t have 'em before you’re 30. [/QUOTE] Waiting till after 30 for no reason is a great way to wind up flushing your savings into the Fertility Treatment Toilet. Especially if you want more than one kid. Breed in time. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/55 "2013-10-23T17:07:48Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Are you joking? Anyone who works a full day in a daycare center, responsible for the well-being of multiple kids at a time for 8-10 hours straight, has a pretty damn good idea of what it’s like to have children. A really damn good idea. Ooh. 8 whole hours, you say. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/56 "2013-10-23T17:10:58Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Are you joking? Anyone who works a full day in a daycare center, responsible for the well-being of multiple kids at a time for 8-10 hours straight, has a pretty damn good idea of what it’s like to have children. A really damn good idea. No. They know how to take care of kids, but not how to parent. At the end of the day, they go home to a (presumably, given the topic) childless house and don’t have to worry about children for another 12-16 hours. They’re not responsible for… … teaching the child morality … paying for the child … being legally responsible for the child … dealing with the children once they grow too old for day care … signing legal documents on behalf of the child … knowing where the child is 24/7/365 … the child’s overall health … the child’s overall development … the child’s college fund I mean, I could go on but I’m sure you get the idea. It’s the difference between playing a role for 8 hours and actually living the life. Idris Elba might play a mean gangster, but in a gun fight, I’ll take the guy with 2 jail terms for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon any day. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/57 "2013-10-23T17:24:25Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I know two women who think/thought they knew what raising kids was like, because they have worked in daycare centers. One of them is finding this out with her toddler; the other has had numerous miscarriages and IVF treatments, and refuses to accept that SHE.JUST.ISNT.SUPPOSED.TO.HAVE.CHILDREN. And considering some of her ideas about discipline, it’s probably just as well. I would never tell her that, however. > > p.s. One aspect of infertility treatment that isn’t discussed is when it works, and one or both of them regrets it. ☹ I have read about infertility clinics that give prospective clients a Baby Think It Over, and in a surprising number of cases, the BTIO is returned first thing the next morning and the couple never pursues further treatment. :eek: Wish I could find a link. Who are you to say she “isn’t supposed to have children”? How many miscarriages are we each allotted before this is the case? And who is doing the supposing? How do you know she isn’t preordained to have five miscarriages and eight fertility treatments before giving birth to the baby that grows up to cure cancer? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/58 "2013-10-23T17:37:25Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Who are you to say she “isn’t supposed to have children”? How many miscarriages are we each allotted before this is the case? And who is doing the supposing? > How do you know she isn’t preordained to have five miscarriages and eight fertility treatments before giving birth to the baby that grows up to cure cancer? How does FIFTEEN (yes, one-five) sound to you? It’s not my body or my decision, but I would think that something like that is a big old red flag that You Are Not Supposed To Have Children. JMHO and YMMV, of course. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/59 "2013-10-23T17:42:53Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > How does FIFTEEN (yes, one-five) sound to you? It’s not my body or my decision, but I would think that something like that is a big old red flag that You Are Not Supposed To Have Children. > > JMHO and YMMV, of course. :rolleyes: If you said she may not be ABLE to have children, that would be different. You’re implying that some force beyond her physiology is preventing her from having them, since she would be a bad parent. The fact that someone cannot conceive is not a strike against their character or potential parenting abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/60 "2013-10-23T17:43:56Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Ooh. 8 whole hours, you say. Yeah, I say. That’s twice as much as the 4 waking hours most working parents see them. You may want to dial the flippancy back a notch. > [@JohnT](#): > > No. They know how to take care of kids, but not how to parent. At the end of the day, they go home to a (presumably, given the topic) childless house and don’t have to worry about children for another 12-16 hours. > > They’re not responsible for… > > … teaching the child morality > … paying for the child > … being legally responsible for the child > … dealing with the children once they grow too old for day care > … signing legal documents on behalf of the child > … knowing where the child is 24/7/365 > … the child’s overall health > … the child’s overall development > … the child’s college fund > > I mean, I could go on but I’m sure you get the idea. It’s the difference between playing a role for 8 hours and actually living the life. Idris Elba might play a mean gangster, but in a gun fight, I’ll take the guy with 2 jail terms for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon any day. 😉 You aren’t familiar with decent day care if you’re going to assert that day care teachers/workers aren’t responsible for teaching the child morality. And I can name a bunch of moms or dads who aren’t handling many of the issues you brought up above, because their spouse handles it. Does that mean they don’t have any idea what it’s like to be a parent? Does a working dad not have any idea what it’s like to be a parent because he isn’t spending as many hours a day with it as his wife? What about a wife whose husband handles all the finances, insurance and legal issues? Remember, I never said they knew exactly what it was like to be a parent. I said they have a pretty good idea, and I stand by that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937.md?page=4)