# Parent Dopers: What Advice Do You Have for non-Parents? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937 "2013-10-22T16:19:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/61 "2013-10-23T17:53:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > No. They know how to take care of kids, but not how to parent. At the end of the day, they go home to a (presumably, given the topic) childless house and don’t have to worry about children for another 12-16 hours. > > They’re not responsible for… > > … teaching the child morality > … paying for the child > … being legally responsible for the child > … dealing with the children once they grow too old for day care > … signing legal documents on behalf of the child > … knowing where the child is 24/7/365 > … the child’s overall health > … the child’s overall development > … the child’s college fund > > I mean, I could go on but I’m sure you get the idea. It’s the difference between playing a role for 8 hours and actually living the life. Idris Elba might play a mean gangster, but in a gun fight, I’ll take the guy with 2 jail terms for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon any day. 😉 Daycare workers also don’t have to deal with: Sick kids Midnight barfings, bedwetting, nightmares, etc. The fight to bathe them The battle to dress/undress them, at leaast 4 times a day The 10+ escorts back to their bed every night. And on and on… I’d agree that they know how to care for kids, but parenting is another stratosphere. 24/7 365 with no coffee breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/62 "2013-10-23T17:57:37Z")
Step 1: take a chill pill Step 2: see step 1 Anything that’s a problem once isn’t really a problem, if you’re not the responsible party. What are the consequences, to you, of a nuisance for a short amount of time, once in a while? Keep that in mind before acting. If it’s a recurring problem, then things are different, but perhaps the best approach is to find a new venue where it’s not a problem, because there’s little you’ll be able to do to change things. The world seems to be full of people just looking for something to be annoyed at and to gripe about. The evidence is obvious: something annoying happens once, and they pop up like mushrooms. Fortunately, they’re the minority, and best politely ignored. Regarding kids in my house or on my property, it’s another matter. If the “responsible” parent isn’t, I will be, with no apology. They either follow the rules or they’re not permitted on premises. Our son’s friends always knew what the rules were, where the boundaries were, and respected them. Only once did a parent give me grief for chiding her son. It was a very close friend, and well… I let her express her ire and left it at that. Regardless, her kid appreciated the environment we provided. He’d been fooling around by our winterized pool, and fell in, breaking through the ice (shallow end, fortunately). At age 14, it wasn’t serious, but he did put a big hole in the cover. I probably said something like “Dammit, Jon, you know better!” He now jumps out of helicopters to save peoples’ lives, so between his mother and me we didn’t mess him up too badly. Perhaps it was good practice. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/63 "2013-10-23T17:58:04Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Are you joking? Anyone who works a full day in a daycare center, responsible for the well-being of multiple kids at a time for 8-10 hours straight, has a pretty damn good idea of what it’s like to have children. A really damn good idea. No, they don’t. They go home, and they are done. They can run out to happy hour or the gym, plan a weekend road trip, spend their money on hookers (or save their money for a new iPad), or do whatever. They go home to their significant other, and their relationship is just between them. And when they want to quit their job, they are done. They never have to think about those kids again. They know about taking care of a child, but that is just a small part of being a parent. It’s been said before, but it’s true. Having kids changes everything. It changes all of your relationships- to your spouse, to your family, to your friends. It changes your career trajectory. It changes every choice you make. And it’s 24/7, for decades. It’s just a totally different way of living. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/64 "2013-10-23T18:00:27Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Daycare workers also don’t have to deal with: > > Sick kids > Midnight barfings, bedwetting, nightmares, etc. > The fight to bathe them > The battle to dress/undress them, at leaast 4 times a day > The 10+ escorts back to their bed every night. > > And on and on… > > I’d agree that they know how to care for kids, but parenting is another stratosphere. 24/7 365 with no coffee breaks. Are you kidding? Daycare workers get the full range of bodily fluids. And is someone chaining you to your child? Yes, you’re still a parent during a coffee break, but you don’t have to spend every second with your child to be a parent. Is a non-custodial parent not a parent? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/65 "2013-10-23T18:03:24Z")
Nobody said parentis didn’t change everything, but parents can also do a lot of the things you mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/66 "2013-10-23T18:22:01Z")
While I advised non-action in most cases above, I didn’t mean to discourage those who can cheerfully provide assistance, and my hat’s off to those who do, despite the risks. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > A method that has circumvented many meltdowns for me is empathy. Yes, empathy. Great point. I don’t think it ever hurts to acknowledge to the child that it’s understandable that they feel the way they do. They don’t have to “get better” or “stop feeling bad,” but they do have to deal with it somehow (of course, below a certain age, they’re not equipped to handle this message or understand “dealing with it”.) I cringe every time a parent seems to punish or berate a child for feeling the way they feel, rather than focusing on the behavior that’s the issue (best of all, promoting the correct behavior rather than being negative about the bad behavior). That said, it’s REALLY hard to elicit the response you want. Talk is easy, raising kids is hard. > [@DSeid](#): > > Enjoy the fact that you have never made a mistake parenting. Because the minute you have kids your record starts to go downhill. No kidding! If you want to seriously question your judgment, have kids. If you have kids and don’t ever question your judgment, be very afraid. > [@CLee](#): > > Have you found the immense relief yet in getting over yourself? That was my most gratifying Moment after I had my daughter. About three months in I realized that I hadn’t been spending hours in my closet, hours at the gym, hours in front of a magnifying mirror, or wakeful nights wondering if I’d said the right thing, pining away for lost love, or all those other poetic but dead-end meanderings that occupied a brain better spent doing constructive things. One day, when she’s much older, I’ll thank my daughter for helping me get over myself. For now, though, I’ll just send a reassuring nod your way: you’re growing, even if you’re exhausted and every minute is consumed with tasks and milestones. _hit the “like” button_ > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your strategy retaliates on the minimum wage checkout clerks for a decision made by their regional manager. That’s unfair, and more importantly, unnecessary. Furthermore, it’s ineffective. At best, it’s an amusing futile gesture – amusing to you but nobody else. > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Are you joking? Anyone who works a full day in a daycare center, responsible for the well-being of multiple kids at a time for 8-10 hours straight, has a pretty damn good idea of what it’s like to have children. A really damn good idea. Such a person has a clue. A pretty good clue, but still, just a clue. There’s a huge difference between being responsible for someone for a fixed period versus being responsible for them for life. I have an adopted son. I’m sometimes called his step father, which I resent. I don’t belittle being a step-parent (it’s important and difficult), but it’s not the same thing as being fully responsible for the life of another. I’d like to add “until they’re responsible for themselves,” but even after that you still bear considerable responsibility. Worse yet, there’s rather little you can actually do (without doing more harm than good, by overparenting an adult.) You have to limit yourself to providing advice (usually ignored), occasional support (frequently unappreciated), and worst of all, sometimes having to turn off the tap. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/67 "2013-10-23T18:37:02Z")
Okay, this thread and the other that inspired it have largely dealt with young children misbehaving in public. That’s the context of my remarks. I’m not really interested in arguing the emotional changes that come about when someone has children. I’m the father of two and understand all of that perfectly. My point is, I’m going to be a hell of a lot more likely to take advice about handling unruly children in public from a non-parent who has some serious experience dealing with behavioral issues in young children on a daily basis. Most daycare workers had a much better of an idea about what my life was going to be like and gave me better advice about my day-to-day routine as a new parent than did 60-year-old parents. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/68 "2013-10-23T18:57:38Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Okay, this thread and the other that inspired it have largely dealt with young children misbehaving in public. That’s the context of my remarks. Ah, that makes more sense. I’ve been teaching or student teaching for about nine years now, and a parent for four. A lot of my teaching experience has proven invaluable in being a dad: it’s built up a tremendous amount of patience for idiotic kid behavior, and I’m familiar with a lot of ways that kids act up, and I’ve got some ideas for how to deal with a lot of those ways. So, yeah: professional kid-wrangling is helpful for discipline. But teaching did nothing to prepare me for sleep-deprivation, or for the agony of a sick/injured/locked in the bedroom child (really, kid, you decide to figure out how the lock on your door works at 2 a.m.?), or for how to get a kid on and off of an airplane without deciding to strangle her midflight, or for any number of other things that I wasn’t expecting. Including the ineffable delight of your own child’s happiness and love. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/69 "2013-10-24T01:20:51Z")
I didn’t post in the other thread because I have zero advice re: parenting. The only advice I have re: being a parent would also apply to being a decent or happy human, so I see how that would be presumptuous and inaccurate to aim only at parents. But this thread, while interesting, is also very negative. How about some positives? I _do_ get how full-on parenting is. I know some of you may be bridling at that (especially because it directly contradicts some of the advice in this thread), but I honestly believe I do. I get that it’s 24/7. It’s exhausting. It never ends, even pervading your sleep. It fundamentally changes you, your thoughts and your focus. It is constant, draining, and part of your brain never gets to switch off and is always monitoring and evaluating everything and how it applies to your child’s safety, future, likes, dislikes, needs, wants, opportunities, abilities, etc. I get it. In fact, I think it’s because I so thoroughly get that side of it, that I want nothing to do with parenting. Given all that - why would you do it? See, it’s the upside I don’t get - I have no problems getting the downside. So a few posts on the upside to counteract the negativity, perhaps? So enough with that aspect - give us some advice regarding the positive side of parenting. What surprised you (in a good way), that non-parents may be interested in knowing, or it may be of value to share? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/70 "2013-10-24T01:33:54Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Waiting till after 30 for no reason is a great way to wind up flushing your savings into the Fertility Treatment Toilet. Especially if you want more than one kid. Breed in time. Ummm, not everyone meets the person they want to have babies with in time to have any and all kids they want by age 30. Life tends to get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/71 "2013-10-24T01:45:29Z")
Meh. It really isn’t so bad once you accept the fact that kids are generally a pretty forgiving medium to work in. My kids (three adults now if you count 18 in college as adult, and only one still left in the house, the 12 year old) have and will likely turn out pretty okay despite me and the many mistakes my wife and I have made and will no doubt continue to make. My attitude is that I am not driving them to be the best or happiest thems they can be; I am merely finding the ways to let them figure out how to do it themselves and, as they say, not “block the blessing.” Sure, I’ve made the stupid parenting mistakes. And they survived. Tough little buggers as a general rule. Look at it this way, odds are at least 50/50 that each of us are better than average parents, maybe better. And most kids with less than average parents still turn out okay too! We have an impact but screwing the job up badly takes some serious effort and/or serious negligence. That realization has helped me at least relax and enjoy them a bit more. (My wife has a cartoon still on our bulletin board from when our 27 year old was a baby - two mothers holding their infants, one saying to the other: “I’ve given up on giving him the perfect childhood. Now I’m just trying to limit what he’ll say about me on the couch.” :)) ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/72 "2013-10-24T01:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=Eva Luna] Ummm, not everyone meets the person they want to have babies with in time to have any and all kids they want by age 30. Life tends to get in the way. [/QUOTE] Please read again. I was saying that waiting for no reason was not a good idea. The things you list are reasons. The poster I was replying to seemed to argue that no matter what, even if you had everything ready, you should wait until after 30 to have children. Which is a really dumb strategy, fertility wise. Yeah, it would be nice if we could do that. But we can’t, realistically. Fertility doesn’t reduce after 30, it drops like a rock. Really, all sorts of things would be nice in a sane world, but human bodies just aren’t intelligently designed, and we cant aim for “best” all the time. Breeding after 30 = no kids for a heartbreaking number of folks. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/73 "2013-10-24T02:11:02Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Please read again. I was saying that waiting for no reason was not a good idea. The things you list are reasons. > > The poster I was replying to seemed to argue that no matter what, even if you had everything ready, you should wait until after 30 to have children. Which is a really dumb strategy, fertility wise. Yeah, it would be nice if we could do that. But we can’t, realistically. Fertility doesn’t reduce after 30, it drops like a rock. > > Really, all sorts of things would be nice in a sane world, but human bodies just aren’t intelligently designed, and we cant aim for “best” all the time. Breeding after 30 = no kids for a heartbreaking number of folks. Yes and no, depending on what one considers a valid reason. I’m of the firm opinion that “I’m not sure I want to have kids yet” is a perfectly valid reason not to have kids yet. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/74 "2013-10-24T02:23:05Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > When our kids were smaller my wife and I used to talk about The Parent Zone. It’s the constant flicker of interaction and accommodation that’s in effect whenever kids are around. You can tell who the other parents are in the room because they’re in The Parent Zone with you. They’re paying attention to a whole bunch of little things that the non-parents aren’t. They’re paying attention because they’ve been conditioned to pay attention, because an unhappy baby makes damn sure you pay attention no matter what else you’d rather be doing. This is probably why it would bother me if the person in line behind us started interacting with my kid. I’ve got several balls in the air already in line at the market: getting the stuff up on to the conveyor, making sure the checker doesn’t double scan anything and the bagger doesn’t put the eggs underneath the watermelon, plus pretending to listen to the checker chit chatting about the weather and scanning my debt card AND a little one in pre-meltdown and now I’ve got to keep an eye on the potential weirdo adult trying to friend up my kid. It’s one extra thing happening and I have enough already. Thanks anyway, but back off helpful stranger. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/75 "2013-10-24T02:28:01Z")
[QUOTE=Eva Luna] Yes and no, depending on what one considers a valid reason. I’m of the firm opinion that “I’m not sure I want to have kids yet” is a perfectly valid reason not to have kids yet. [/QUOTE] Me too! However, the poster I was replying to argued that one should wait until one was absolutely sure, and then wait until after thirty, just in case. Which is nice in theory, but not really a wise strategy, given biological realities. What exactly are you arguing against, here? What is it about my post that are unclear? I mean, I didn’t even use the word “valid”, that comes from you. Any reason is good; no reason is bad. I am really not sure how to make myself clearer here. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/76 "2013-10-24T02:36:10Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > What exactly are you arguing against, here? What is it about my post that are unclear? I mean, I didn’t even use the word “valid”, that comes from you. Any reason is good; no reason is bad. I am really not sure how to make myself clearer here. I’m not necessarily arguing against you, but you certainly aren’t the only person who has decided on some kind of recommended age by which one should have completed one’s reproducing. Personally, I think if one is going to err in the childbearing decision-making process, better to err on the side that is less likely to produce children who aren’t as wanted as they might have been. There are a lot of unwanted children in the world, and there are a lot of children (including lots of wanted ones) born to parents who weren’t ready to be parents. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/77 "2013-10-24T02:51:03Z")
AGAIN: The person I was originally replying to said that one should wait until one was absolutely sure one wanted kids, ABSOLUTELY SURE IN EVERY WAY, 100%, NO IFFS BUTTS OR WHYFORES, and then wait until after 30, FOR NO REASON. THAT is what i am arguing against. But you have apparently invented an entirely fictional argument you are having with me inside your own head. Have fun with it. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/78 "2013-10-24T02:58:04Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > AGAIN: The person I was originally replying to said that one should wait until one was absolutely sure one wanted kids, ABSOLUTELY SURE IN EVERY WAY, 100%, NO IFFS BUTTS OR WHYFORES, and then wait until after 30, FOR NO REASON. > > THAT is what i am arguing against. But you have apparently invented an entirely fictional argument you are having with me inside your own head. Have fun with it. I’m not arguing with you. If you want to have babies, knock yourself out. I am pointing out that many people make similar arguments, and I acknowledge that there are sound biological reasons for the point you are making. I just don’t think reproduction should be the default choice. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/79 "2013-10-24T03:23:32Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Please read again. I was saying that waiting for no reason was not a good idea. The things you list are reasons. > > The poster I was replying to seemed to argue that no matter what, even if you had everything ready, you should wait until after 30 to have children. Which is a really dumb strategy, fertility wise. Yeah, it would be nice if we could do that. But we can’t, realistically. Fertility doesn’t reduce after 30, it drops like a rock. > > Really, all sorts of things would be nice in a sane world, but human bodies just aren’t intelligently designed, and we cant aim for “best” all the time. Breeding after 30 = no kids for a heartbreaking number of folks. Not so much 30, but 40? Yeah, for women, it does drop off drastically around that age. I believe that people who wait until their 30s to have children, and then have difficulty conceiving, are going to be more likely to be able to afford fertility treatments than people in their 20s, and many fertility doctors won’t even do interventions on people under a certain age, usually 25 or so. My parents were in their 30s when they had all their children, and my brother and his wife were too, and none of them had any difficulty conceiving. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937/80 "2013-10-24T10:28:45Z")
> [@Essured](#): > > But this thread, while interesting, is also very negative. I think it’s negative because there is a general feeling that if you say how wonderful and delightful parenting is, you come across as smug. If you tell people that your life is improved in every way, you are judging them for not having kids. I mean, how do you say 'It’s the best choice I ever made, it’s transformed my life, the idea that I almost decided not to do this now fills me with horror, and, frankly, it’s like my life went from black-and-white to color. You have no idea," without coming across as saying “I can’t believe you aren’t doing this?” It’s also kind of like the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon is truly, genuinely breathtaking. But anything you say about it comes out sounding like a thread worn cliche. Parenting is very much like that. If there is one thing non-parents don’t get, it’s this: please understand how POOR I am now. We have the same job. We make the same money. But I make 20% less than you because our employer doesn’t subsidize family coverage. And kids are a whole additional person worth of stuff. And, most of all, staying financially stable now matters to me: there’s college to think of, and being able to provide him with a rock-solid home for the next 20 years. I am not at all complaining when I say this. But I do feel like my childless friends sometimes don’t understand that I cannot responsibly go to a bar and spend $10, or meet for a $15 lunch, or whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-non-parents/671937.md?page=5)