# Parental Consent for Medical Treatment & Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708 "2003-05-22T01:35:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Philly\_Style](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@Philly\_Style](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philly_Style)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/21 "2003-05-22T23:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Abortion is a special case that is entirely different from getting your ears pierced or getting an asprin. That’s why. \*\* What is so special about it? Seems fairly common to me. How about a nose job? A broken arm is also different. Still, they wouldn’t amputate without parental permission. This is another just because meaningless response. ---
**Author:** ![Sionach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Sionach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionach)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/22 "2003-05-22T23:25:22Z")
What about instances in which the parents would force their daughter to carry the child to term? What about the daughter’s right to not have to be a mother at 16? Shouldn’t she have some say over that without parental interference? The teen isn’t making a decision to have / not have _surgery_, she is making a decision to be / not be a **mother**. Parents shouldn’t be able to force their child to be a mother by denying a medical procedure. Requiring consent and/or notification would allow parents to do so. If consent were required, the parents could deny consent, and if advance notification were required, the parents could physically stop their daughter from obtaining the abortion. This, imo, is very wrong as it basically allows the parents to say “too bad, you screwed up, so now you have to be a mother whether you want to or not.” Notification after the fact is a little more hazy; I can see reasons for and against it. Yes, it would be beneficial for some parents to know what’s going on in their teen’s life, but if a teen doesn’t trust her parents enough to feel safe telling them she’s having an abortion, I don’t think it’s up to “us” to tell them for her (especially considering the very real potential for abuse or abandonment as a result of telling). ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/23 "2003-05-22T23:38:34Z")
There is no constitutional right to an aspirin or pierced ears. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/24 "2003-05-23T00:28:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*There is no constitutional right to an aspirin or pierced ears. \*\* One wonders why. If the magical, mystical, “living” constitution can, in spite of its actual text, guarantee reproductive choices, it can certainly guarantee other medical choices. All that would be required is a judicial policy choice disguised as constitutional interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/25 "2003-05-23T01:17:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*One wonders why. If the magical, mystical, “living” constitution can, in spite of its actual text, guarantee reproductive choices, it can certainly guarantee other medical choices. All that would be required is a judicial policy choice disguised as constitutional interpretation. \*\* Dewey is a big meanie ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/26 "2003-05-23T01:21:11Z")
Sorry, I forget this was not the pit. I withdraw my “big meanie” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/27 "2003-05-23T01:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > \*\*How so? Both are legal. Both are probable signs of deeper problems for the child. Both could be construed as immoral by parents. Because if she is denied a choice at this temporary stage of her life, it has profound consequences for her entire existence. > [@](#): > > In what way are they different, much less ‘worlds apart’? Well, I don’t know how far this needs to be impressed into you, but the abortion issue involves whether a new human comes into the world through the girls body. That’s what makes it worlds apart. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/28 "2003-05-23T06:07:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philly Style \* > \*\*How come, except under extreme medical emergency, a hospital that wouldn’t give my daughter an aspirin, would perform a potentially life threatening procedure, abortion, without so much a notification, let alone consent? > > Why do I lose all parental rights if my child chooses to abort? Around here, a sixteen year old can’t get her ears pierced without the parent’s approval. If she wants an abortion, strangers will hide the fact from the parents at the minor’s request. > > How, in anyone’s opinion, can this be considered just and fair? \*\* The reason why we allow children to have abortions without parental consent is that when we require parental consent for abortion, children who get pregnant commit suicide rather than ask their parents for permission, or have backalley coathanger abortions and die of hemorrage or sepsis, or are killed by their parents when they ask, or are thrown out of the house and end up dying on the street or living out their short lives as prostitutes or worse. We, as a society, have decided that the harm to “justice and fairness” that results from this intrusion on parental authority is not enough to counterbalance the loss of life and loss of quality of life that flows from not carving the exception for abortion. This law is quite probably not fair, but it is absolutely necessary–at least until we can outlaw parents who choose to reserve the right to harm their children for getting pregnant. Abortion has forced many hard compromises on lawmakers. This is one of them. Abortion is not like getting one’s ears pierced; it is not like taking an aspirin. Our lawmakers have–painfully–come to recognize this, and shaped the law to accomodate this fact. Sometimes laws are made for practical reasons, rather than out of a pursuit of somebody’s idealized definition of “justice” or “fairness”. ---
**Author:** ![Philly\_Style](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@Philly\_Style](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philly_Style)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/29 "2003-05-23T20:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*Unfortunately, the nature of abortion is such that privacy is a major issue. Disagree with the law if you like, but it you can’t tell what the difference is (or why it’s not like aspirin), there’s no point in arguing about it. \*\* In other words, since for you, it is a bigger issue then subjecting children to a medical treatment that has life long effects, it should be taken out of my hands? You miss the point entirely. I am asking why in this case I am stripped of parental rights, and assumed to be an child beating zealot. ---
**Author:** ![Philly\_Style](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@Philly\_Style](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philly_Style)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/30 "2003-05-23T21:01:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*The reason why we allow children to have abortions without parental consent is that when we require parental consent for abortion, children who get pregnant commit suicide rather than ask their parents for permission, or have backalley coathanger abortions and die of hemorrage or sepsis, or are killed by their parents when they ask, or are thrown out of the house and end up dying on the street or living out their short lives as prostitutes or worse. We, as a society, have decided that the harm to “justice and fairness” that results from this intrusion on parental authority is not enough to counterbalance the loss of life and loss of quality of life that flows from not carving the exception for abortion. This law is quite probably not fair, but it is absolutely necessary–at least until we can outlaw parents who choose to reserve the right to harm their children for getting pregnant. Abortion has forced many hard compromises on lawmakers. This is one of them. > > Abortion is not like getting one’s ears pierced; it is not like taking an aspirin. Our lawmakers have–painfully–come to recognize this, and shaped the law to accomodate this fact. Sometimes laws are made for practical reasons, rather than out of a pursuit of somebody’s idealized definition of “justice” or “fairness”. \*\* Please cite source for your lurid claims. At minimum, show the perceptable drop in the teenage suicide rate post Roe. I make up facts too. These girls suffer higher rates of depression and addiction. Oh wait, these are true… ---
**Author:** ![Philly\_Style](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@Philly\_Style](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philly_Style)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/31 "2003-05-23T21:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*At the end of the day, the child/young woman’s health and wellbeing trump the parents’ right to know. > > \*\* You assume abortion is the healthy choice. Please cite source showing that teenage girls who abort enjoy better health, mentally or physically. Don’t assume. I makes an … ---
**Author:** ![Philly\_Style](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@Philly\_Style](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philly_Style)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/32 "2003-05-23T21:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > \*\*Wrong, wrong, and wrong. > > As someone who worked in the health insurance industry for a few years, I can tell you that there are many very serious confidentiality issues with regards to kids. If you have a child over the age of nine, you are not allowed to know about mental health claims they may have made, any substance abuse treatment they may have undergone, or any STD or pregnancy related treatment, even though it’s under your insurance. > > Fortunately, there are some instances where individuals’ rights trump those of a parent. \*\* As someone who has worked in the insurance idustry for well over 20 years allow me to state that you are an idiot. Parents get & file the claims information. We won’t even consider a claim that doesn’t have the “named insured’s” signature if the claimant is a minor. The insurance company would not contact the child for additional information either. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/33 "2003-05-23T21:40:06Z")
I belonged to an HMO and I used their facilities and paid my co-payments up front. No further records were sent to my house. Heck, they even asked things like “if we need to call you, is it okay to leave a messege on the machine” and other questions to ensure my privacy. When I began taking birth control pills, I can assure you that nobody ever asked for consent and I as told in no uncertain terms that I had absolute privacy and that if I was having trouble with my parents there were various arrangement they could come up with to help. Can’t you guys see why privacy in regards to medical treatment would be important? You have an important role of watching over your childs health. But your child has a more important role in watching over her own damn health. She is the one that will have to live with the consequences and it should be her decision. It’s not because you are an evil child beater. It is because there are some things that are more important than a parents’ right, like a persons right over themselves. Kids are full fledged humans. They deserve to be able to make decisions when it affects them so intamityly, and if they are old enough to schedule an appointment and show up on time are old enough to start taking responsiblity for the control of their physical being. ---
**Author:** ![cj\_finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@cj\_finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cj_finn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/34 "2003-05-23T21:43:11Z")
Perhaps I missed it in scanning the thread, but did anyone point out that a minor cannot get an abortion without “adult” permission. No one allows a child medical care (emergencies excepted) unless there has been permission. In the case of minors though, that permission can come from a judge. The minor must tell the judge why the procedure must be carried out and then, and only then, will the judge determine whether it would be prudent to let the child have an abortion without parental knowledge. If I remember correctly, the standard used is that of the best interests of the child. I feel that this issue rankles as much as it does because this type of decision preempts a parents prerogative to determine what is in the childs best interests. Especially so where the parent is anti-abortion. Philly, you would do good to follow your own advice. cj ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/35 "2003-05-23T21:51:05Z")
**PhillyStyle** > [@](#): > > As someone who has worked in the insurance idustry for well over 20 years allow me to state that you are an idiot. [Moderator Hat ON] As a Moderator, allow me to state that you are NOT allowed to call your fellow posters an “idiot” in this forum. Don’t do it again. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/36 "2003-05-23T22:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Should an orthodox Christian family have the right to shun a child having promiscuous sex and multiple abortions? Sure they do, but do they always have the right to find out about it? > [@](#): > > Should any parents be forced to share a house with a serial killer? I suppose a girl who has had a couple of abortions would be considered a “serial killer” by some pro-lifers, but not by me. To rephrase the question for this situation: Should any parents be forced to share a house with a minor girl who has had an abortion without their knowledge? I’d say yes. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/37 "2003-05-23T22:37:00Z")
Guys, here is the view of someone who has been on both sides of this fence. As a 17 year old, I had an abortion under general anesthetic without any kind of adult consent. I didn’t tell my parents until about a decade later because I was scared of them getting mad at me. Not beating me, or disowning me, just being mad and disappointed. Frankly, if I had told them, they most likely would have gone along with the abortion. But now that I am a mom, it horrifies me that I had a significant surgical procedure with serious potential health risks without my parents knowing anything about it. General anesthetic can be very dangerous, and abortions can cause all manner of post-operative problems. What if I had died as a result of the procedure? I understand that abortion is a sacred cow, but as a parent it is a huge concern to me that a minor child could receive any surgical procedure under anesthesia without parental notification and consent. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/38 "2003-05-23T22:41:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I understand that abortion is a sacred cow, but as a parent it is a huge concern to me that a minor child could receive any surgical procedure under anesthesia without parental notification and consent. What if you were just one year older, in which case you would be an adult instead of a minor? Would that extra year of wisdom have affected your decision at all? ---
**Author:** ![Sionach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Sionach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/39 "2003-05-23T23:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by EJsGirl_ > . . . it horrifies me that I had a significant surgical procedure with serious potential health risks without my parents knowing anything about it. General anesthetic can be very dangerous, and abortions can cause all manner of post-operative problems. Early term abortions today are not usually serious surgical procedures, nor do they require general anesthetic (general anesthesia can be used, but is not actually necessary). The procedure today requires nothing more than a vaccuum tube being inserted into a woman’s vagina, and having the uterine lining and embryo “sucked out.” There is a small chance of uterine perforation and other damage, but the rate of incidence of most major complications is .01 - 1%. Later term abortions come with increased risk and a more difficult procedure, yet are still relatively simple and, again, do not require general anesthetic. [Cite](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ABORTION/surgabort1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708/40 "2003-05-24T00:45:31Z")
Don’t forget that giving birth to a child has serious potential health risks also. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parental-consent-for-medical-treatment-abortion/176708.md?page=3)