Parenting Dilemna

So how long does your child (any child) have to take abuse for it to be o.k. for them to use violence? The child was bullied for a “few months.” If the child had been picked on for a few years would that be grounds for retaliation? Your son stood up for himself against overwhelming odds knowing that he’d probably get in to trouble. I think that shows character and that he’s been taught honor, courage, and fortitude even in the face of danger. Lessons all young, soon to be, men need.

You are the parent; I think you should stick to your guns and not change the punishment that has been already set. I also, think you definitely need to have a talk about the difference between fighting and defending. Someone invading your personal space while assaulting you (verbal or physical) is provoking a fight in which you must defend yourself.

As a father, and former scrapper, I fear the day my children’s lives are endangered, but I know it is my duty to prepare them for life and its perils.

Ok, person who was bullied as a kid checking in.

My parent’s advocated non-violent solutions too. My mom told me I was “born” a pacifist, and that she had to insist I stand up for myself against a bigger toddler. I was just old enough to walk. I just took getting beaten with a stick, and did nothing to defend myself. That encounter ended one day when I got a stick (smaller than the one being used on me) and hit the girl back. She layed me out, and I refused to go near her again.

Fast forward to kindergarten. There was a girl in my class who had to repeat kindergarten. She was head and shoulders taller than me, and always had snot on her face, though her clothes were clean if faded. She was always picking on me, coloring red spots on my pale blue dresses and such. One day, I was waiting patiently in line at the drinking fountain after recess. There had been 3 people in line in front of me, and the first kid was taking a LONG drink. “Alice” asked me if she could have “cuts in line”. Knowing that the teacher had said not to give cuts, that this was a rule, (Mom taught me to obey the rules quietly) I said "No,but look there were 3 people in front of me when I got in line, and there are 3 people in front of you, I’m not very thirsty so I won’t be long. She called me a name I had never heard before, but I knew it was BAD. (Bitch) Without even thinking I made a fist, spun around to my left, and gave her a wicked right hook. It bloodied her nose. (Horrors!)

She got the teacher, who immediately got the prinicipal. I whispered the word the girl had called me after being promised I would not get in trouble for saying it to the teacher. They called my mother. I had to sit in the office. Mom later let me know that she had told them that they had better not dare to punish me without punishing “Alice” too. (It was the '70’s after all) So, I got no actual “punishment”,because they were unwilling to punish poor “Alice” since she was the “victim” and had the bloody nose. Believe me the office visit alone was enough deterrant. I began to double my temper control. I still have no idea why a word caused me to bloody someone’s nose to this day. The whole thing still deeply disturbs me, and I am still ashamed.

Fast forward to 2nd grade. There was a boy, “Joe” who delighted in threatening me, mocking me, and actually hurting me. He was bigger than me, and a year older too. (I was small for my age.) One day, he cornered me against the brick wall and told me he was going to punch me out. He cocked his fist back, and I ducked. He hit his fist full force on the serrated brick wall. He actually had the nerve to run to the playground teacher and tell her that “She MADE me hit my hand on the brick wall!” showing his bloodied knuckles and crying. The teacher asked me what had happened, and I told her the truth. He got detention for lying, and fighting too I think.

When he found out what had happened, my dad told me I had the right to defend myself against a physical attack, and not to be afraid to do it. Mom added that it should only be if I knew I had to do it to get away safely. Mom was proud, and so was he.
(Note, the names in these accounts have been changed.)
I think he got enough of a scare by being called into the office to give a report to the police. He may even have nightmares about it. (I did) If you think it might help him, print my accunts out, and let him read them, so he knows he’s not alone.

I’d reduce the sentence halfway, too. I’d also think of at least collecting copies of the incident reports, in case you do end up needing a restraining order. I’d also let the school administration have it good, for actually allowing mixed seating on the buses. WTF were they thinking?!! Of course something like this was bound to happen, and they also bear responsibility. They should have insured your child’s safety. Good luck, and Blessings on your family.

At my sons elementary school, they’re calling the cops in situations like this due to the new “Zero Tolerance” policy.

It’s both a good thing and a bad thing, IMO. I agree with other posters who have said that the schools are covering their asses. There are too many litigous parents now so you can’t really blame them in that sense.

And, the old “kids will be kids” excuse left a lot of seriously bullied kids to fend for themselves and is inexcusable in some cases. One kid committing suicide from constant bullying is one kid too many. Something did have to be done, IMO.

Yet, Zero Tolerance seems to have taken some of the fun out of being a kid in the schoolyard, too. Some kids will report other kids out of spite, or for jollies, just for accidental bumping or “touching”. Parents get phone calls, kids get suspended, everyone hairs out over nothing.

I’d do what other posters have suggested and tell your son the truth, in age appropriate terms. I don’t think I’d have punished him any further, if he were my son. Not to say you did wrong, ouisey, we’re all different and you certainly sound sensitive towards your child. But in my mind, the bullying from the older kids, then the police interview, would have been punishment enough.

In this case at least, I would call his behaviour “defensive” rather than “aggressive”. I’d start instituting punishments only if were starting to look like he decided to continue to deal with his problems with a punch in the nose.

Zero Tolerance is ridiculous. It’s just as bad as what it replaces in some ways.

However, if I were to be abused (mentally/emotionally) the way I was in middle school as an adult – say in an office – the abusers would be the one with their asses on the line. Somehow, though, no matter if I told or didn’t tell, nothing ever changed for me as a kid. Oh, the sexual harassment charges I could press if it happened now…

I know how one word can make you snap. Once in eighth grade I was walking by a table in the cafeteria and some other kid called me some name. I don’t remember what. Having had enough YEARS ago I hauled off and SLAPPED him. He looked at me incredulously and says, “Bitch!” I walked out of that room on a high like I’d never felt, just for having stood up for myself, though he got a buddy to trip me as I went out the door. Did I do the right thing? It didn’t make a difference, as in stop the bullying. But nobody expects an adult to survive in a hostile atmosphere like I had to deal with for years on end. Part of me actually understands why things like Columbine happen.

I still say good for your kid. I mean, months of bullying? That’s enough to wear anybody down, let alone a 7-year-old.

Truth be told, I’d’ve taken my son out for pizza and a movie.

I don’t abide tolerating bullies. Zero tolerance my ass. If the bus driver, or the school itself, can’t provide a safe environment on the bus, then your son has every right to defend himself.

And, good on him for it.

When I started elementary school, I was one of the younger kids in my class and the very smallest one. I got a lot of teasing. I wasn’t really hit or punched, but I was pushed, tripped, pinched, and verbally teased. 28 years later and I can still remember that humiliation.

At first I did what friedo suggested and told an adult. That got me nothing but a reputation as a tattle-tale and more teasing.

Sometime around age 8, I had enough and finally hit someone. Hard. I was never taught to throw a punch or anything, but I guess I got lucky. I gave the kid a bloody nose. He hit back. I didn’t back down. We got into it. (I’m a girl but in the early grades there wasn’t so much of a taboo against hitting girls.)

Yes, I got into trouble at school, but this was 1972 and I think a little more was tolerated then. Yes, my parents lectured me, but not too heavily. And the message came through loud and clear that they understood it had reached a point where I had enough.

It didn’t make me instantly super popular or anything. But the teasing stopped. That was worth the lectures.

Would I recommend using violence to stop teasing? I honestly don’t know. I don’t think hitting is an appropriate response to verbal insults, but these are grade school kids. Sometimes it seems to only way to get teasing to stop is to show that you’re not going to be the victim any more.

I guess I wouldn’t praise your son for his action, but I wouldn’t punich him to hard either. Getting teased is miserable–I’d take a punch in the nose over that any day of the week!

It’s a shame because the stinking bullies should be the ones who get the strict punishment!

I was also assaulted and abused by others in school.

During my 5th grade year, I had finally had enough and when one of them “Mike”, stuck his foot out again to trip me* again* for the 15 millionth time that year, I snapped.

I remember grabbing him by the throat, and squeezing. I remember how his face turned red, then purple. His eyes bugging out…

He swung a wild hand around and clubbed me in the ear. I let go, went to my desk and broke down crying.

Nothing was ever done. My mom got a call, but beyond that, nothing happened. They stopped messing with me at that school.

Similar things happened in Jr. High. Things I did to end it I’m not proud of, but would probably do again.
Now my daughter is in school, and has a girl that has been bothering her in class. I’m torn between teaching her to defend herself properly, or trying to go to the school admin, or letting her figure it out on her own. We’ll have to see.

I was bullied in elementary school all the way up to high school. I never once spoke up for myself - I was afraid. Now, looking back, I wish I had spoken up for myself and defended myself. I’d gladly have accepted any punishment if it meant the torment would stop.

Personally, I would have taken your son out for a milkshake, but I’m not a parent. I just remember what it was like to be bullied.

Ava

Am I the only one who is becoming overwhelmed with rage at my school age bullies?
I’ve got to stop reading bully threads.
Oh and I would cut your punishment down as well.

Give the little one a hug for me. I know how hard it is to be teased; like many of the people in this thread, I was one of the youngest/smallest kids in my class from kindergarten to eighth grade and was teased and ridiculed often. In high school, girls said things about me and spread horrible, vicious rumors to no end. I wish I had been able to muster up half the courage your son did and done something about it then, but I didn’t and I regret it to this day. I speak from experience and say that the shock and humiliation of the police report and all this nonsense (as well as the strength it took to face the mean bully) has been taxing enough and he just needs to know that you’re on his side and that everything will be all right.