# Parents; banned packed lunches **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 15, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149 "2014-07-15T10:53:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/141 "2014-07-18T13:36:30Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > OMG really?! I thought they came like manna from the skies. That changes everything! > > Or not. School lunches do a world of good- they increase learning and improve health, both of which pays of exponentially for our nation in the end. And the government has access to inexpensive food, meaning any school lunch is going to cost a fraction of what mom pays to put together a peanut butter sandwich. I’d like to know how that works. Most places I’ve worked have had a cafeteria. The place I currently work has a cafeteria that services a population of some 3,000 people. It costs me about $7 to $8 to buy my lunch. If I bring my lunch, which I always do, it costs me about $3 or $4. I’ve never bought a cafeteria meal in my life that was cheaper than what I could make at home. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/142 "2014-07-18T14:19:15Z")
The first grade school I attended had no cafeteria–we brought our own lunches or went home to eat. After that the schools all had cafeterias, and we bought our lunches. In high school I did yard work on the weekends to earn money for school lunches–and school supplies. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/143 "2014-07-18T14:23:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The question in my mind is: are 100% “free” school lunches more expensive than evaluating each student’s need for free or reduced priced lunches? I haven’t found anyone coming right out and saying it, but the way the USDA has (fairly quietly) changed their coverage makes me think they might be cheaper. > > That’s a lot of bureaucracy, and bureaucracy isn’t free. Does bureaucracy cost more than apples and canned corn? I don’t know, but someone at the USDA does. And that someone has just decided that if more than X% of the kids in your district qualified for free or reduced priced lunches last year, we’re just going to drop the forms and give all students free lunches moving forward. I’d be shocked if that decision didn’t involve a cost comparison of the old system and the feed-em-all system. Might not have been the only factor, but it was very likely _a_ factor. I think USDA should have an easy comparison. Puerto Rico has offered free food for all students attending their public schools, no questions asked about family economics. Granted, the vast majority of students would qualify anyways, but magnet schools (such as mine) have a sizable population of parents with enough income to have to pay (if they were in such a system). It shouldn’t be hard for them to look at that and see how it works. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/144 "2014-07-18T14:44:00Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’d like to know how that works. Most places I’ve worked have had a cafeteria. The place I currently work has a cafeteria that services a population of some 3,000 people. It costs me about $7 to $8 to buy my lunch. If I bring my lunch, which I always do, it costs me about $3 or $4. I’ve never bought a cafeteria meal in my life that was cheaper than what I could make at home. Well, a cafeteria is a high-overhead profit seeking enterprise paying wholesale for food. A school cafeteria is a low overhead enterprise that sells food at cost and pays subsidized prices for food. You don’t pay for your labor at home (though it is still a resource being expended) and you pay retail for food. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/145 "2014-07-18T14:53:36Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I’m interested to know why are you against public (or government) schools providing lunch (and/or breakfast). I have family members and friends w/ children who receive free meals at school. I find it interesting they can afford iPhones, cigarettes, tattoos, video games, alcohol, cable TV, and 60-inch LED TVs, but they can’t afford lunches for their children during the school year. (Interestingly, they _can_ afford lunches during the summer break.) It’s not that they can’t afford school lunches. It’s that they _ **qualify** _. And since they qualify, they take advantage of the freebie. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/146 "2014-07-18T15:03:57Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Well, a cafeteria is a high-overhead profit seeking enterprise paying wholesale for food. > > A school cafeteria is a low overhead enterprise that sells food at cost and pays subsidized prices for food. > > You don’t pay for your labor at home (though it is still a resource being expended) and you pay retail for food. Two of the places I’ve worked previously had non-profit cafeterias that were owned and staffed by the company, and it was still way more expensive than bringing something from home. My current cafeteria is not owned by the company and is certainly in it for profit. Anyway, I can’t really continue debating this because I’m in Canada and the economies of scale are no doubt much different. Plus none of the schools that I’m aware of (apart from high schools) even have cafeterias. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/147 "2014-07-18T15:20:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I am guessing you are also against “government schools.” > > If you aren’t a fan of central governments, I hear Somalia is nice this time of year. If you want to go down attitude lane that’s fine. Given the abysmal level of academic achievement in the United States we should assume teachers are so inept as to be incapable of making their own decisions. Therefore your paycheck will be reduced to compensate for the mandated lunches for teachers. You will be given coupons for approved foods you can buy at home. We don’t want you to come to work lethargic. Expect an increase in your insurance premiums unless you submit to a diet and exercise program. You’re now banned from smoking, drinking, and eating snacks or you will be fired. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/148 "2014-07-18T15:40:16Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Two of the places I’ve worked previously had non-profit cafeterias that were owned and staffed by the company, and it was still way more expensive than bringing something from home. But that brings it back to the quality/appetizing issue. I’m guessing that the quality of the food in the cafeteria at your work is a notch higher, as well, which is going to increase the cost of the food. It’s even likely that it’s cooked on the premises. [People don’t grok that many schools’ “cafeterias” these days don’t have actual kitchens - even the fried food is fried off site and only heated - often by microwave - before the kids get there for lunch.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/12/28/167719980/one-lunch-ladys-cafeteria-conversion) They have done everything they can to maximize those economies of scale - partially by eliminating onsite cooking, partially by using crap subsidized commodity food. Your employer knows that a) there’s only so far they can reduce the quality of the food before you say “screw that” and bring a sack lunch (the very choice we’re talking about doing away with in this thread) and b) they don’t have to go so far to reduce costs, because you’re willing and able to cover the cost of better, fresh cooked food for them with the purchase price of your meal. [A full price (non-reduced, not free) lunch at my kid’s school last year was $2.45. The adult lunch was $3.50 or $4.50](http://www.cps.edu/About_CPS/Departments/Pages/MealRates.aspx). So about the same as you’re figuring your packed from home lunch cost. So comparing workplace cafeterias and school cafeterias is like comparing apples and prepacked refrigerated applesauce with artificial flavoring added. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/149 "2014-07-18T15:47:10Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’d like to know how that works. Most places I’ve worked have had a cafeteria. The place I currently work has a cafeteria that services a population of some 3,000 people. It costs me about $7 to $8 to buy my lunch. If I bring my lunch, which I always do, it costs me about $3 or $4. I’ve never bought a cafeteria meal in my life that was cheaper than what I could make at home. We’re talking about elementary, middle, and high school facilities in this thread. Currently the price of lunch for a high school student in Bryant, Arkansas is $2.25. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/150 "2014-07-18T16:02:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I have family members and friends w/ children who receive free meals at school. I find it interesting they can afford iPhones, cigarettes, tattoos, video games, alcohol, cable TV, and 60-inch LED TVs, but they can’t afford lunches for their children during the school year. (Interestingly, they _can_ afford lunches during the summer break.) > > It’s not that they can’t afford school lunches. It’s that they _ **qualify** _. And since they qualify, they take advantage of the freebie. Ok, like I said, I come from a place where anyone attending public school gets a breakfast and lunch, no one pays there, and no questions are asked regarding economics. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with affording other stuff and yet eating lunch (and breakfast) at school. It’s not denigrating to eat the food. And even with the mystery meat, the food at school was likely healthier and cheaper to make than what my parents or I could prepare at home, day in and day out. And certainly healthier than most of the other options around the school (we could leave the school whenever we wanted). If they qualify, why do you call it a freebie? What does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/151 "2014-07-18T16:13:38Z")
I realize education is ran at a state level, just as it’s ran at a provincial level here, but kids aren’t even provided with pencils anymore in Ontario. We used to get a list at the start of the year that included everything from note books and pencils, right up to glue sticks and Kleenex. Providing free meals would be impossible without some major tax increases, which ain’t gonna happen. I just found a [three year old pdf](http://www.aagefontario.org/uploads/1/1/7/5/11755376/the_principals_guide_to_the_real_food_lunch_club.pdf) that pegged the price of lunch for elementary students at $4.50 to $6.00 per day, after taxes. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/152 "2014-07-18T16:33:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you want to go down attitude lane that’s fine. > > Given the abysmal level of academic achievement in the United States we should assume teachers are so inept as to be incapable of making their own decisions. Therefore your paycheck will be reduced to compensate for the mandated lunches for teachers. You will be given coupons for approved foods you can buy at home. We don’t want you to come to work lethargic. > > Expect an increase in your insurance premiums unless you submit to a diet and exercise program. You’re now banned from smoking, drinking, and eating snacks or you will be fired. You might want to wipe the foam off your mouth, there. It’s a single meal, in a place where “the government” makes far more profound decisions for kids than who makes their sandwich. This really isn’t the End of Freedom ™. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/153 "2014-07-18T16:43:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You might want to wipe the foam off your mouth, there. > > It’s a single meal, in a place where “the government” makes far more profound decisions for kids than who makes their sandwich. This really isn’t the End of Freedom ™. Yeah, it’s not that it’s “the end of freedom”, it’s just yet more government overreach. I say this as a (broadly) left wing British person. I don’t suppose I’ll be taking to the barricades over it, but I also don’t see this idea that parents are incapable of raising their own children as a particularly healthy one. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/154 "2014-07-18T16:48:20Z")
I don’t see it as the parents being incapable, I see it as a help in raising the kids. The time and expense done in preparing the meals day in and day out could be transferred into either more family time, or better dinners, better breakfasts, etc. Or redirecting the money that the families may or may not have into something else. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/155 "2014-07-18T17:05:54Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I realize education is ran at a state level, just as it’s ran at a provincial level here, but kids aren’t even provided with pencils anymore in Ontario. To a large extent, it’s run independently at the local level. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/156 "2014-07-18T17:07:02Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I don’t see it as the parents being incapable, I see it as a help in raising the kids. The time and expense done in preparing the meals day in and day out could be transferred into either more family time, or better dinners, better breakfasts, etc. Or redirecting the money that the families may or may not have into something else. I have no problem with schools offering free meals to all kids. It’s the mandatory aspect of it that’s disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/157 "2014-07-18T17:24:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you want to go down attitude lane that’s fine. > > Given the abysmal level of academic achievement in the United States It’s true that so far we teachers have been unable to educate the general public (I’m looking at you, **Magiver** ) not to trust scary media reports, or to educate them to look up stats themselves; if we’d succeeded in this, everyone would know that the US performs right in the middle of the pack–statistically very slightly above average–of industrialized nations when it comes to standardized test scores; however, when it comes to real-life achievement of our top students, we’re among the best in the world. Where we really struggle is with the fact that our nation has one of the highest levels of income inequality among all industrialized nations, and that income inequality is deeply connected to institutionalized racism such as redlining that’s denied wealth accumulation and middle class entrance to a huge subgroup within our country, and that subgroup, relegated to violent ghettos by public policy, doesn’t tend to do well in public schools. If we can fix that social injustice, our scores are likely to skyrocket. The rest of your post got snipped, since it was based on such an ignorant premise. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/158 "2014-07-18T17:45:40Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I don’t see it as the parents being incapable, I see it as a help in raising the kids. The time and expense done in preparing the meals day in and day out could be transferred into either more family time, or better dinners, better breakfasts, etc. Or redirecting the money that the families may or may not have into something else. If schools provided a lunch that was delicious, nutritious, and cost parents no additional funding them I’m quite convinced the vast majority of students would be taking advantage of such a program. I see no compelling reason to ban home packed lunches though. And, yes, school’s do act in loco parentis, but there’s are limits to their powers. And forcing students to eat the food provided by the cafeteria goes beyond those limits. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/159 "2014-07-18T18:15:01Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Yeah, it’s not that it’s “the end of freedom”, it’s just yet more government overreach. I say this as a (broadly) left wing British person. > > I don’t suppose I’ll be taking to the barricades over it, but I also don’t see this idea that parents are incapable of raising their own children as a particularly healthy one. I don’t think it’s doing that any more than schools are saying that parents are incapable of teaching the ABCs. If we keep doing the same thing, we will keep getting the same results- which involves things like so many kids getting “adult onset” diabetes that we had to change the name. Childhood nutrition is a public health problem, and public health approaches are remarkably good at addressing public health problems. It wasn’t long ago that kids had the “right” to bring their cigarettes to school and smoke them in the smoking section. But we have taken a public health approach towards smoking, and bitch about nanny states all you want, but we live remarkably longer and healthier lives because of that. And again, I am sure there are waivers and nobody is actually going to be forced into anything. The idea is to make school lunches the default, which isn’t going to be an easy shift even if today’s school lunches are healthy and delicious-- in part because so many parents have traumatic memories of the bad old days, and in part because “free lunch” still has a huge social stigma. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149/160 "2014-07-18T22:12:56Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And again, I am sure there are waivers and nobody is actually going to be forced into anything. **But that was the entire premise of the thread.** Read the last three words of the thread title. Getting people responses to banning packed lunches was the whole point of the poll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-banned-packed-lunches/693149.md?page=9)