# Parents have no rights? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684 "2003-07-11T11:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/21 "2003-07-11T16:16:25Z")
On review, part of my post was a little unclear. The last sentence in the second paragraph should have read “Should the hospital or doctor’s office be required to notify the girl’s parents in that case?” Robin ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/22 "2003-07-11T16:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > For that matter, what about girls who come from abusive or dysfunctional families? [plus similar writing] I agree that there needs to be some way for girls from these kinds of families to get out of the notification. _But_ that should not be the ‘default setting,’ as it were, for the law. I feel that the state should assume that the parents are decent people doing their best unless the girl says otherwise or there is something obviously wrong. It should be far more nuanced and local, with the girl’s and doctor’s input, not the state’s. I don’t feel completely comfortable relying only on the girl’s discretion. I’m sure we have all known kids who tried to report their parents to CPS out of spite, not because of actual abuse. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/23 "2003-07-11T16:35:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by genie \* > \*\*I agree that there needs to be some way for girls from these kinds of families to get out of the notification. _But_ that should not be the ‘default setting,’ as it were, for the law. I feel that the state should assume that the parents are decent people doing their best **unless the girl says otherwise or there is something obviously wrong**. It should be far more nuanced and local, with the girl’s and doctor’s input, not the state’s. > > **I don’t feel completely comfortable relying only on the girl’s discretion**. I’m sure we have all known kids who tried to report their parents to CPS out of spite, not because of actual abuse. \*\* (emphasis added) Your post contradicts itself. In the first paragraph, you say that “if the girl says otherwise”, it’s okay not to notify the parents, but in the second, you say that you don’t feel comfortable relying on the girl. Which is it? Robin ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/24 "2003-07-11T16:37:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Even children have a right to doctor patient confidentiality. If a teenager tells her doctor that she is sexually active, for instance. The doctor cannot inform the parents. That’s the way it should be. \*\* But, yet, OTOH, parents can be charged with neglect if they don’t take care of their kids. How can I reasonably be said to be taking care of my child’s health if they are going in for procedures without my consent (or at the very least, my knowledge)? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/25 "2003-07-11T16:39:50Z")
I am not a lawyer, and I’d appreciate hearing from one here, but I am under the impression that doctors are not required to notify parents when minors are treated for ANYTHING, a presumption of “parents’ rights” or the “hugeness of the decision” notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/26 "2003-07-11T16:51:35Z")
From my admittedly hazy memory, there are very specific situations where a physician can act _in loco parentis_, including when a lack of immediate action would pose a high risk to the child. Other than that, medical authorities must have parental consent for treatment. I’m not a lawyer, either. This is what I was told in EMT training. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/27 "2003-07-11T16:52:24Z")
To quote from the [Health and Human Services](http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/regtext.html) page regarding HIPAA regulations: > [@](#): > > (3) Implementation specification: unemancipated minors. If under applicable law a parent, guardian, or other person acting in loco parentis has authority to act on behalf of an individual who is an unemancipated minor in making decisions related to health care, a covered entity must treat such person as a personal representative under this subchapter, with respect to protected health information relevant to such personal representation, except that such person may not be a personal representative of an unemancipated minor, and the minor has the authority to act as an individual, with respect to protected health information pertaining to a health care service, if: > > (i) The minor consents to such health care service; no other consent to such health care service is required by law, regardless of whether the consent of another person has also been obtained; and the minor has not requested that such person be treated as the personal representative; > > (ii) The minor may lawfully obtain such health care service without the consent of a parent, guardian, or other person acting in loco parentis, and the minor, a court, or another person authorized by law consents to such health care service; or > > (iii) A parent, guardian, or other person acting in loco parentis assents to an agreement of confidentiality between a covered health care provider and the minor with respect to such health care service. So, from what I understand, if it is legal (in one’s state) for a minor to obtain said health-care (in this case, abortion), then the parent does not have the right to obtain the information regarding the abortion. From my time working in health insurance, I also know that, at least here in VT, minors had the right to privacy about mental health care, substance abuse care, and care relating to pregnancy or STDs. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/28 "2003-07-11T16:53:41Z")
Whoops, let me ammend that last paragraph to read "minors _age 13 and above_ have the right to privacy, etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Eilsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c68b51/32.png) [@Eilsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eilsel)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/29 "2003-07-11T16:56:01Z")
HIPAA varies state to state, at least that’s what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/30 "2003-07-11T16:57:18Z")
No, **Eilsel**. HIPAA is federal. Other states might have their own laws on the subject, but HIPAA is federal and thus does not vary state to state. Robin ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/31 "2003-07-11T16:59:36Z")
I’m just saying that we need to be careful. Obviously we have to rely mostly on the girl’s testimony, since abuse can be well-hidden; but OTOH lying does happen. A doctor faced with that kind of situation would want to do some careful investigating, and no matter what, cases would end up on the wrong side of the line, because nothing is perfect. But the state ought not to presume automatically that parents will be evilly punitive and abusive if they find out that their daughter wants an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/32 "2003-07-11T16:59:47Z")
Another question… Somewhere, a bill is going to be generated. What happens when the parents get the bill in the mail? Or a notice from the insurance company? Surely a young girl in that much trouble is not going to be able to pay with cash. The parents are going to find out one way or another. So if a girl is at risk from abusive parents, wouldn’t it be best to know ahead of time, rather than doing the procedure, sending her home, and having the parents find out a few months later? As much as I distrust DSS, perhaps they need to investigate if a child is in fear of telling her parents about her pregnancy. She can then be removed from the situation if warranted. Bottom line, I do not want my daughter to walk into a hospital and have any procedure performed without my knowledge. **Dropzone** , IANAL either, but I know that I have signed Waiver of Consent forms for my children at their schools, so in the case of an emergency WHERE THEY CANNOT CONTACT ME, any lifesaving procedures can be done without my permission. I don’t think minor patients have a right to doctor/patient privilege where their parents are concerned, correct? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/33 "2003-07-11T17:01:22Z")
Typically, Federal regulations like HIPAA define the minimum of protection. While states can INCREASE protection they cannot reduce it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/34 "2003-07-11T17:04:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > > * * * > > But, yet, OTOH, parents can be charged with neglect if they don’t take care of their kids. How can I reasonably be said to be taking care of my child’s health if they are going in for procedures without my consent (or at the very least, my knowledge)? > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* Neglect is about _withholding_ certain things (adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care). If a kid is seeing a doctor (or at least is not being _prevented_ from seeing a doctor) there is no neglect by law. The parent has no legal liability for any procedure which is undertaken by a child under the shield of doctor-patient confidentiality. The onus is on the doctor to provide reasonable care. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/35 "2003-07-11T17:09:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ivylass \* > What happens when the parents get the bill in the mail? Or a notice from the insurance company? Surely a young girl in that much trouble is not going to be able to pay with cash. Wild guess: The teenage girl in question may be going to Planned Parenthood and explaining the situation. They have sliding-scale fees and have probably dealt with the “I can’t tell my parents but I’m poor” situation before. I’m having no luck in digging up information on my workplace’s website regarding parents, minors, and patient-doctor confidentiality; the search function isn’t that great. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/36 "2003-07-11T17:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by genie \* > \*\*I’m just saying that we need to be careful. Obviously we have to rely mostly on the girl’s testimony, since abuse can be well-hidden; but OTOH lying does happen. A doctor faced with that kind of situation would want to do some careful investigating, and no matter what, cases would end up on the wrong side of the line, because nothing is perfect. But the state ought not to presume automatically that parents will be evilly punitive and abusive if they find out that their daughter wants an abortion. \*\* Are doctors supposed to be detectives? Are they supposed to hire private eyes to find out if a girl is really abused? What method of “careful investigating” di you recommend? The default position is that a kid is a human being with rights. If a girl says that she is abused then we must err on the side of the child. It would be impossible and ludicrous for health care providers to conduct private investigations before they provide a desperate kid with service. The proper thing for the state to “presume” is that a patient is telling the truth unless proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Eilsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c68b51/32.png) [@Eilsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eilsel)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/37 "2003-07-11T17:15:58Z")
DOH! You’re right, I’m thinking of the ERISA preemption and all that crap. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/38 "2003-07-11T17:24:54Z")
Heh, now I found it. One additional exception to the rules that **Eonwe** quoted - and which is true for all personal representative relationships - is that the health care provider may withhold information from a parent if the minor is deemed to be a victim of abuse or neglect, or if otherwise providing the information could endanger the minor. I’m not sure where “my parents will kick me out of the house if they find out I’m pregnant” falls into that description, but I’m sure something like “my dad would hit me if he found out” probably would. My memory seems to tell me that if a physician has evidence that points toward child abuse, including statements from the minor patient, it must be reported - but I can’t dig up anything on that at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Sidewinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@Sidewinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sidewinder)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/39 "2003-07-11T17:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > _Sayeth MLS_: > I have never, ever, heard any person or organization state a “pro-abortion” position. “Pro-abortion” means you think abortion is a good and desirable thing to be sought out. No one is in favor of that. My ex was definitely pro-abortion. She thought it was a perfectly viable means of birth control. Furthermore, she actually stated that infanticide should be legal until the child is 2 years old. That’s just cold. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684/40 "2003-07-11T17:30:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sidewinder \* > \*\*My ex was definitely pro-abortion. She thought it was a perfectly viable means of birth control. Furthermore, she actually stated that infanticide should be legal until the child is 2 years old. That’s just cold. \*\* :eek: :eek: I’m glad she’s your **ex**! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-have-no-rights/187684.md?page=3)