It seems that if you’re a parent who wants to know that your daughter is pregnant, has considered abortion, and is going to have one you need to work on establishing the type of parent/child relationship with your daughter so that if that happens, she’ll come to you and parental consent/notification laws won’t even be an issue.
Well, if the girl is going to be using health insurance to pay for it, yes, a bill will be going to the plan member. And, even though it won’t say specifically what the bill is for, if planned parenthood sends a bill home, it’d be obvious that something’s up.
I think though, that beyond privacy, we’re talking about something a little more important. Does a parent have a right to forbid his/her teenage child from having an abortion? The OP is lamenting the lack of parental consent in regards to abortion. It’s all well and good to talk about concerns about the mindset and welfare of the minor, but it seems to me that demanding parental consent would amount to nothing more than a method by which a parent could forbid such a procedure. And that, IMO, is something that should not be allowed to happen.
Have any of you ever been an abused teenaged girl trying to navigate the adult world of doctors and birth control?
Since this is relative to the debate here let me tell you all a true story and see where this fits into parental consent laws.
I was molested by my father from age 3 or 4 (my memory from then is a little fuzzy) until I was 23. I lived in constant fear that he would get me pregnant or kill me although there were some days where I thought death would be good.
Anyway when I was 15 he decided it would really make his life that much better if I were on the pill. He marched me off to the clinic and I went for my appointment. Now I was terrified. I knew what this appointment meant. He wanted to take our little relationship to the next step (until this point there had been no actual vaginal penetration) I decided I had had enough of the abuse and spent the bus trip there working up the courage to tell the doctor the real reason I needed the pills and to get myself out of my father’s house.
What really happened at the doctor’s office went like this: I sat waiting for the doctor in my little johnny for an eternity. She came in and looked at my chart and started to berate me for wanting the pill at such a young age. She then told me to lie down so she could do the exam and since I was a virgin and I was completely terrified and embarassed the pap was a disaster. She scribbled out a prescription, threw it at me and left. When she closed the door behind her last words were spat at me ‘come back when you’re no longer a virgin.’
I stuffed the prescription in the trash and lied to my father. He couldn’t really go to the doctors and demand I got pills as that would open up questions he couldn’t answer. He did leave the penetration issue alone for a few more years though (when he found out I had actually lost my virginity he got quite pissed and raped me)
Now I have a little girl of my own. She’s only 2 so we haven’t discussed sex yet but we will. A lot. I want her to know what is and isn’t appropriate for people to do to her and that if she is ever in any situation where she needs help that she can come to me. I also want her to be able to make the safest and most educated decisions possible about her body. I am realistic about kids and hormones and pressures to have sex. I would like her to wait until she’s an adult but if she doesn’t I don’t want her afraid to turn to my husband and I for help. I also plan on giving this information to my son when he is old enough to understand it.
However… should one of my children feel it is necessary to seek the counsel of a doctor first/instead I would hope that the medical community has learned a few things since I was 15 and that they not get the kind of treatment I did. As a parent I understand wanting to be involved in my children’s lives but as a child who needed help and didn’t get it I can understand there needs to be someplace better for troubled kids to go especially for something as serious as pregnancy where they do not have to fear!
Oh, tanookie, what a horrible story. I hope your father is in jail.
And you know what, Eonwe? I was talking more about notification, but the more I read your post, yes, I want the right to forbid my daughter an abortion. YMMV, of course.
Then we will go home, discuss the options, and if we decide that an abortion in in her best interests, we will take her back to the clinic.
I don’t think minor children should be making adult decisions without their parents’ help. And I certainly don’t want her going through such a thing by herself.
Now, granted, we are not the awful parents tanookie had, but then again, that’s where the doctor or DSS comes in…the girl can say, “My father got me pregnant” and then they can take it from there. But for stable families, I think the parents should have the ultimate authority over the children.
Of course, the safest way is to teach a child responsibility and the consequences of their actions, so hopefully, this situation will not arise.
Just MHO.
The problem I see Ivylass is that in the real world things don’t work that way.
My father is not in jail and he most likely never will be. If he had gotten me pregnant and found out about it he would have most likely forbidden me to get an abortion. He took an awfully absurd amount of pride in telling me how I probably had a bunch of brothers and sisters we didn’t know existed! Heck I have a brother who might really be my uncle… I could not have handled having a child who was also a sibling.
My mother walked in on him naked ontop of me and did NOTHING. If that is possible then doctors/nurses/DSS will also manage to do nothing… or not enough… or do we drag the whole thing out in court to the point where abortion is no longer the viable alternative it was a few months earlier in the pregnancy.
I would be disappointed that somehow I failed to impart on my daughter just how much I would be willing to support her in any decision if she decided to seek an abortion without my consent but I cannot fathom circumstances where I would want to force a child to carry a child to term.
Children make adult decisions every day without their parents around. All we can do is hope we taught them enough to make smart decisions and that we’ve given them the confidence to stand up for their convictions.
Why the FUCK should you have that right? What the FUCK makes you think that’s your decision?
Your daughter’s body is fucking HERS. You have NO fucking say over her reproductive decisions.
Would you say that a parent has a right to force a child to have an abortion? What’s the fucking difference?
Your statement that a minor shouldn’t make adult decisions is really fucking moot since she would have no choice about making that decision if she were pregnant. Choosing to have a baby as a minor is a far more difficult, longlasting, and frankly, irresponsible decison than having an abortion.
The choice about when to have a child is about the most personal decision any person could make and no one, not even mom, has the right to usurp that decision.
Ivylass,
What do you mean “we” decide? What if her idea of her best interests conflicts with yours? I think saying “I want the right to forbid my daughter an abortion” pretty much says that she doesn’t have final say, so it then becomes your decision (perhaps with her input) and not hers.
It’s true that many teens might be in very unstable emotional positions if they’re dealing with a decision like this. IMO that makes it all the more necessary to ensure that parents don’t impose what they feel is the right thing to do on a person who is making what must be a dificult choice.
Read tanookie’s horrible story again. She wanted to say something, and couldn’t. I would think that most young girls in that situation would not feel safe revealing something like that, especially with the abusive parent in the next room.
To think that most families, by default, are loving and supportive and will understand is a dangerous assumption. There are enough that are not to warrant confidentiality. Besides, if you truly raised your daughter to trust you, would she have trouble telling you of her own free will?
How dare you, Diogenes. It is my decision because she is my daughter. I have the right to decide what she will eat for dinner, how she gets her haircut, and when she gets her ears pierced. Her body is her own in that no one can violate it. However, when involving an invasive medical procedure, her father and I should have the right to know about it!
Why are you jumping down my throat? You do not have the responsibility of raising my daughter. Her father and I do. And if we decide that an abortion is in her best interests, or if we decide that it isn’t, it is OUR decision, not yours, and certainly not the state of Florida’s.
Eonwe, are you saying that because of a few bad apples, the rest of us good parents don’t have a right to know what is going on in our children’s lives? If her idea of what’s in her best interest don’t agree with what her father and I believe, tough shit. She’s not the adult. Her idea of dinner is ice cream and pizza. That conflicts with my idea of dinner. Since I am the adult, with more life experience and wisdom, I get to decide. That’s the responsibilty I took on when I decided to bear a child. That is not to say we will not take her concerns into consideration. But until she’s 18, the responsibility ultimately rests with her father and me.
As I said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But children get funny ideas. What if my daughter gets date-raped and is afraid to tell us she got pregnant because she feels we will blame her? According to this ruling, she can get an abortion without her parents knowing she was raped. Her father and I will be denied the opportunity to help her through this crisis.
This isn’t about preventing abortions. This is about knowing what goes on in your child’s life. In this instance, Florida has said None Ya Business. And that is where I have the problem. I would feel the same if Florida said a minor can get a tattoo or a tongue piercing without a parent’s permission.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!
Being a parent does not grant you sovereignty over your children’s reproductive rights. No you don’t get to decide. Sorry. You don’t. You don’t have a right to force your daughter to carry a pregnancy that she doesn’t want. This is not the fucking third world. Your kid is not your fucking property.
OK, so the parents of a pregnant minor female are to be excluded from the decision-making process. It’s her body, her decision. The child unwisely decides to have her baby rather than an abortion. She brings her baby home to Mom & Dad and expects them at the very least to provide child care because she is financially incapable. They are also presented with the hospital bill. They may love their daughter very deeply, but her decision is going to have a profound impact on their lives as well as anyone else in the immediate family. Seems to me there should be some way to mediate.
ivylass:
No, it is HER decision.
Not yours and not the state of Florida’s.
ivylass, you’re going to get jumped for that comment. Sorry, I feel the same way with Diogenes.
By the time your daughter could be pregnant you’re looking at a 12-14 year old. Maybe not the smartest time for a child but enough to surprise many. A child that young is not going to want to pop out a few kids for the hell of it.
I’d hate to think you could fuck her life up (forcing her to have a kid if that’s what you want) just because you have something against abortion (I don’t know if you do BTW). Bad parents generally don’t have a clue, thus they’re bad parents. Your case sounds different though so this probably doesn’t/won’t apply to you.
If a kid got tricked into sex or raped, she may or may not tell you. If you raised your kid right, she shouldn’t hesitate to come to you for help. But if the kid’s parents suck, then you’re giving “bad” parents ammo to further fuck up their kids.
If you are that worried that your child is making decisions without you, it is legal to have your child kidnapped and held captive in a foreign country where they will be tortured and brainwashed into telling you everything you want to know and doing everything you say.
Would you support such camps being legal in the USA?
Ivylass,
And why is that your right? Remember this is not a decision that has to do with you in more than a tangential way. Yeah, you can tell your kid what to eat, because you’re probably the one buying groceries, and, I don’t think anyone’s rights are infringed upon by you not buying your daughter pizza.
Sadly nighttime… some parents kinda do
I think it’s a parent’s right and obligation to help their child thru a crisis. She’s a CHILD remember? She needs guidance and not some clinician saying, yeah, we’ll do this procedure for you…it’s the best thing. She is still developing her discernment capabilities at that age, even at 16, 17, 18.
I do declare, however, that if my daughter were i nthis situation and were 12-14, I wouldn’t want her popping out a baby either, however, it’s something she and I and her father should discuss along w/the help of a physician and therapist. This can all be done rather quickly…setting up these discussions.
I think that maybe what Ivylass is saying.
It’s only your right to help so far as help has been asked for. Forcing ‘help’ on someone else can and often does do more harm than good.
ivylass, the state can’t assume that all families are stable and loving and have their child’s best interests at heart. Just because yours is, that doesn’t mean that mine is, or anyone else’s is.
Honestly, how can you read tanookie’s posts and justify your desires by saying, “Well, my family is nothing like hers”? The privacy laws are in effect precisely because of families like tanookie’s. The state has had vastly more experience in dealing with this than you have, m’dear.
Robin
“The state has had vastly more experience in dealing with this than you have, m’dear”
Ummm I disagree. The State does not have vastly more experience in dealing with pregnant teens any more than it does in dealing with abused children.
The bottom line is that children were given to us by God to raise and raise properly. It is our job, hence our responsibility hence a priviledge … we’re talking about CHILDREN here, not 18 year olds.