# Parents keep child's gender secret - seek to raise genderless child **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 24, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995 "2011-05-24T08:48:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/1 "2011-05-24T08:48:34Z")
Story here. [Parents keep child’s gender secret](http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/babiespregnancy/babies/article/995112--parents-keep-child-s-gender-secret) > [@](#): > > When Storm was born, the couple sent an email to friends and family: “We’ve decided not to share Storm’s sex for now — a tribute to freedom and choice in place of limitation, a stand up to what the world could become in Storm’s lifetime (a more progressive place? …).” > > Their announcement was met with stony silence. Then the deluge of criticisms began. Not just about Storm, but about how they were parenting their other two children. > > The grandparents were supportive, but resented explaining the gender-free baby to friends and co-workers. They worried the children would be ridiculed. Friends said they were imposing their political and ideological values on a newborn. Most of all, people said they were setting their kids up for a life of bullying in a world that can be cruel to outsiders. > > Witterick and Stocker believe they are giving their children the freedom to choose who they want to be, unconstrained by social norms about males and females. Some say their choice is alienating. So many BS stories in the news these day. I have to wonder is this is just another publicity stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/2 "2011-05-24T08:56:17Z")
I’ve heard at least one other situation like this - can’t find a link but I do recall that the child’s name was Charlie. So may still be a publicity stunt, but not an unheard of ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/3 "2011-05-24T09:12:54Z")
If the child was born intersexed, I can understand it. Otherwise, if the child is born gender normative, I kind of agree with people who say they’re raising it to end up being mocked and teased and bullied. It would be lovely to think you could raise your child to choose their gender roles, regardless of what they were born as. But the fact is that the world is harsh, and using your child to make a political statement is just cruel. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/4 "2011-05-24T09:18:35Z")
When I read about this the other day I just thought to myself: Jeez what a couple of self-righteous assholes. Oh and “Storm” as a name… is just cruelty. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/5 "2011-05-24T09:18:46Z")
Yeah, I don’t understand parents who use their children as social experiments. I’m all for bringing children up with the freedom to choose who they want to be. I think it’s great that they allow their sons to wear what they want, even if it means that the kids dress in pink poofy dresses and braid their hair. But bringing up your kid as genderless? What does that even mean? That is going to be one confused kid. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/6 "2011-05-24T09:37:03Z")
Their two other kids started picking out their own clothes at 18 months? It’s been a while since I was 18 months old, is this normal? ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/7 "2011-05-24T10:36:09Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Yeah, I don’t understand parents who use their children as social experiments. > > I’m all for bringing children up with the freedom to choose who they want to be. I think it’s great that they allow their sons to wear what they want, even if it means that the kids dress in pink poofy dresses and braid their hair. But bringing up your kid as genderless? What does that even mean? That is going to be one confused kid. Confused and ignorant. They are also apparently fans of “unschooling” which means they will not teach their children about anything untill they express an interest in it. I can’t imagine that will lead the kids to become well rounded. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/8 "2011-05-24T10:39:37Z")
I wonder if the child is really just intersex and they want the child to be able to pick what gender they are as an adult. If they’re not intersexed (the child), this is just a hot mess. This reminds me of a few years back when a prek kid supposedly came out as gay and his parents bought him dresses to wear to school. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/9 "2011-05-24T10:42:18Z")
Also, if the child is not intersexed, this plan can’t last too long. There’s going to be a time, in the future since the child is like four months old now, when it’s going to be visually obvious what gender Storm is. I’m guessing girl. I’ve never heard of a boy having the name Storm. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/10 "2011-05-24T11:16:43Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > Also, if the child is not intersexed, this plan can’t last too long. There’s going to be a time, in the future since the child is like four months old now, when it’s going to be visually obvious what gender Storm is. > > I’m guessing girl. I’ve never heard of a boy having the name Storm. I knew a guy whose middle name was Storm. Besides, in this case you can’t rely on the name. The parents may have chosen Storm for their boy BECAUSE people usually expect it to be a girl’s name. Seems like the sort of thing these frootloops would do. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/11 "2011-05-24T11:21:30Z")
They are doing it wrong. I agree with their _goal_, that your sex should not define what you do and don’t like, but their methodology isn’t going to do that. I’m not sure what the right methodology _is_, but raising Jazz as a boy who likes to wear pretty dresses but lacks the ability to defend his choice, or Storm with the message “You are not a boy (or girl),” instead of “You are a boy (or girl), but that doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to like MLP: Friendship is Magic (or monster trucks)” is just going to end in tears. Also, when I saw the caption saying the kid’s brother was called Jazz, I was half expecting the third kid to be named Rogue. (See? That’s what their kids have to be able to deal with, if they’re ever going to enter the real world.) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/12 "2011-05-24T12:48:07Z")
You can’t protect a child by placing them in a insulated bubble, which these people are doing. This child needs people who Love Storm for who Storm is, and the parents are preventing people from knowing that. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/13 "2011-05-24T12:51:26Z")
Yeah. I’m all for letting your kid explore, and be themselves. But it’s pretty clear they have an agenda. I wonder what they would do if Storm wanted to play with toy guns, or be a soldier? I bet they think they are raising a passle of “Indigo Children” too. What a bunch of fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/14 "2011-05-24T13:10:39Z")
I’d be willing to bet that this child will have lots of therapy as an adult, where the therapist will hear confessions of wishes for a normal childhood. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/15 "2011-05-24T13:13:06Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Their two other kids started picking out their own clothes at 18 months? It’s been a while since I was 18 months old, is this normal? This scares me because when I was that age and picked out clothes for myself, I tended to end up looking like I got dragged through a thrift shop by my ankles. There are embarrasing photos to prove it. I’m all for nonconformity, and it was no fun growing up with a mother who wanted me to be a little lady when I was a nerdy tomboy, but the other extreme (giving your children no guidance whatsoever) seems even worse. No matter how sheltered and encouraged they are at home, someday they are going to have to exist in a society that does have defined gender roles and it’s going to be a hard, rude awakening for the poor kids. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/16 "2011-05-24T13:36:08Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > I’m guessing girl. I’ve never heard of a boy having the name Storm. [Storm Field.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0276049/) Anyway . . . The OP reminds me of B.F. Skinner raising his daughter in a “Skinner Box.” It’s amazing how parents can warp their kids, forcing them to conform to the parents’ chosen values. But on the other hand, there are more mainstream examples of the same thing, totally acceptable only because they are mainstream. It is ok to force a kid to share the parents’ religious beliefs? Is it ok if the religion is outside the mainstream? Would it be ok in a society of atheists? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/17 "2011-05-24T13:51:02Z")
I’m unclear on how this is supposed to work in practice. Are the parents not going to expose the child to depictions and descriptions of _boys_ and _girls_? When the child asks, will they say “you decide” or “we’re not telling you”? Will the brothers be instructed not to tell? At age five, Jazz has already perceived the distinction between, on the one hand, dressing and acting as he wants to, and being factually misidentified. > [@](#): > > “As a result, Jazz and now Kio are almost exclusively assumed to be girls,” says Stocker, adding he and Witterick don’t out them. It’s the boys’ choice whether they want to offer a correction. > … > [Jazz] doesn’t like being called a girl. Recently, he asked his mom to write a note on his application to the High Park Nature Centre because he likes the group leaders and wants them to know he’s a boy. Am I to understand that _that_ wasn’t free enough for these people? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/18 "2011-05-24T13:54:23Z")
I’m not going to address the family, because this is either a) bullshitcompletely, b) a publicity stunty, or c) over-exaggerated, but I did want to scoff at this: “Friends said they were imposing their political and ideological values on a newborn.” Ha. As if that’s unusual or special. Baptism, anyone? Or any of the countless religious ceremonies that take place at or shortly after birth? Hell, circumcision! ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/19 "2011-05-24T13:58:20Z")
Skinner box for his child is really a myth. > **[B. F. Skinner | Air crib](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner#Air_crib)** > > The air crib is an easily cleaned, temperature- and humidity-controlled box-bed intended to replace the standard infant crib. After raising one baby, Skinner felt that he could simplify the process for parents and improve the experience for children. He primarily thought of the idea to help his wife cope with the day-to-day tasks of child rearing. Skinner had some specific concerns about raising a baby in the rough environment where he lived in Minnesota. Keeping the child warm was a central prio... There is research about how simply putting a baby in a pink or blue blanket changes how people treat the child, and you only have to go to a toy store and see the pink aisle to see how ridiculous it can get at times. I think theres something to challenging the status quo at times rather than assuming normative = the most healthy option. For me the biggest risk is with the potential over permissive aspects rather than challenging gender stereotypes, the ‘picking out clothes at 18 months’ feels a bit off to me too. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995/20 "2011-05-24T14:03:20Z")
How in the world is this supposed to work? As I understand it, Jazz, the older sib of Storm, is assumed to be female even though he self-identifies as a boy. I don’t think this is going to end well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-keep-childs-gender-secret-seek-to-raise-genderless-child/582995.md?page=2)