# Parents prayed over daughter instead of bringing her to a doctor. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864 "2008-03-27T01:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/1 "2008-03-27T01:10:40Z")
How [sad](http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=732496), she died. She hadn’t seen a doctor since she was 3. The parents claim that they aren’t religious fanatics, but I disagree. Faith is good, stupidity isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/2 "2008-03-27T01:21:20Z")
I’ve never met a crazy religious fanatic who thought they were a crazy religious fanatic, so its no suprise these two are in denial as well. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/3 "2008-03-27T01:24:31Z")
Let’s all pray that they get off with a mild warning. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/4 "2008-03-27T01:35:47Z")
Ha, so they’ve “got nothing against doctors” but they just let the kid stay ill for about 30 days till she dies? Hmmm. :rolleyes: I hope their three other children keep well and healthy, and perhaps preferably under proper health supervision. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/5 "2008-03-27T01:39:34Z")
Now _these_ are the types that folks should be truly concerned about raising children. Treatable diabetes, no less. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/6 "2008-03-27T01:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=hekk] Faith is good, stupidity isn’t. [/QUOTE] Faith is NOT good. Faith IS stupidity. Claiming faith is good is rather silly in a thread about a child killed by faith. This is simply yet another example of how religion is a plague upon humanity. ---
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/7 "2008-03-27T01:53:04Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Faith is NOT good. Faith IS stupidity. Claiming faith is good is rather silly in a thread about a child killed by faith. This is simply yet another example of how religion is a plague upon humanity. [/QUOTE] There are days that I’d agree with you 100%. But I see how non-blind faith can help some people. Not these parents though. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/8 "2008-03-27T01:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=hekk] How [sad](http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=732496), she died. She hadn’t seen a doctor since she was 3. The parents claim that they aren’t religious fanatics, but I disagree. Faith is good, stupidity isn’t. [/QUOTE] I guess that means the child was evil. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/9 "2008-03-27T01:58:03Z")
So you’re saying they should have paid a doctor to pray over her? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/10 "2008-03-27T02:03:21Z")
[QUOTE=Tenebras] So you’re saying they should have paid a doctor to pray over her? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Uh, no. They should have paid a fucking doctor month ago to check out the poor kid, and left the “faith healing” on the back burner. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/11 "2008-03-27T02:03:36Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Faith is NOT good. Faith IS stupidity… [/QUOTE] Heh!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/12 "2008-03-27T02:04:45Z")
These people don’t seem to be anti-medicine, either by their own testimony or by their actions. The girl had seen a doctor when she was three and attended public school at the age of 10, which you can’t do unless your vaccinations are kept up, which means she’d seen a medical professional fairly recently. The dad attempted CPR, which is not something people who are taught as a matter of faith to leave everything to God would do. The girl’s symptoms were nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, thirst and weakness, which depending on their apparent severity may not appear to be a medical emergency. In spite of the fact that she had apparently seen doctors there was no existing diagnosis that would have helped her parents interpret her symptoms as anything more than a minor illness that could be treated with fluids and rest. The police chief said she had probably been ill for a month, but observable symptoms began (according to those observing them) two weeks before she died, with the possibility of serious illness showing up only a couple of days earlier, and even then there was a (reported) upturn that might reasonably have delayed soliciting medical care. Maybe the parents made a bad decision, maybe there was a flaw in the medical care the girl had received up to the point of her final illness, maybe one or more people are lying and maybe the linked report is unreliable. But I, no fan of science-denying religions, don’t quite see anything blameworthy yet. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/13 "2008-03-27T02:20:10Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] …The girl had seen a doctor when she was three and attended public school at the age of 10, which you can’t do unless your vaccinations are kept up, which means she’d seen a medical professional fairly recently. [/quote] Not necessarily true. I have not had to provide updated vaccination documents for my kids since they started school, though I did have to provide them then. Also, a parent can always opt out on religious or other grounds; I don’t know the law in that state but it may even allow opting out “because I don’t wanna”. Kids get sick. Sick enough to need medical help at least once or twice in 8 years, and unless a family is “anti-doctor” she should at least have been seen for well-child visits, if somehow she was extraordinarily health. [QUOTE=The King of Soup] …The girl’s symptoms were nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, thirst and weakness, which depending on their apparent severity may not appear to be a medical emergency. … [/QUOTE] A friend’s daughter developed diabetes at roughly the same age as the girl in the article. The day she was diagnosed, she’d been going downhill for a couple of days. (in hindsight, there were less severe symptoms for about a month though nothing that caught anyone’s notice, just frequent urination). She went downhill rapidly enough in 24 hours that her mother got her to the doctor, and she could barely walk then. There was absolutely no question that she needed emergency help. In this story, I’d lay large odds that the child was sick enough - for long enough - that any responsible parent should have thought “Hmmm, this is more than the flu” and called 911 or at least a doctor. Criminal neglect, or at least an unforgiveably dangerous level of stupid - and they’re flat-out lying about having nothing against doctors if the story is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![aptronym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@aptronym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aptronym)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/14 "2008-03-27T02:35:02Z")
While I don’t agree with the general anti-religion sentiment (grr you don’t see people railing on atheism every time an atheist does something dumb, do you?), I’ll post my anti-faithhealing statement. _If_ faith healing works, it should work 100% of the time. A 99% success rate for faith healing is no different from a 1% success rate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/15 "2008-03-27T02:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=aptronym] While I don’t agree with the general anti-religion sentiment (grr you don’t see people railing on atheism every time an atheist does something dumb, do you?), [/quote] Atheism does not demand that you do stupid things, nor does it deny reality. Religion does. And people rail on atheism pretty much every time an atheist sticks his head up and gets noticed. It doesn’t matter if they are dumb or not. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/16 "2008-03-27T02:49:31Z")
[QUOTE=aptronym] _If_ faith healing works, it should work 100% of the time. A 99% success rate for faith healing is no different from a 1% success rate. [/QUOTE] 😕 I didn’t really want to ever post in the Pit, but I’m just curious on this thought. Could you elaborate it further, preferably without scary expletives and the like? I’m just curious as to the lack of difference between the two. Isn’t a surgery with a 99% Success rate MUCH more different and preferred than a riskier surgery with a 25% Success rate? Or is it because it’s faith healing in general? Am I missing something here? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/17 "2008-03-27T02:50:18Z")
[QUOTE=aptronym] While I don’t agree with the general anti-religion sentiment (grr you don’t see people railing on atheism every time an atheist does something dumb, do you?), I’ll post my anti-faithhealing statement. _If_ faith healing works, it should work 100% of the time. A 99% success rate for faith healing is no different from a 1% success rate. [/QUOTE] I’m an atheist, but since modern medicine doesn’t have a 99% success rate, I’d want to use faith healing if it offered that. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/18 "2008-03-27T02:50:36Z")
[QUOTE=Mama Zappa] …Criminal neglect, or at least an unforgiveably dangerous level of stupid - and they’re flat-out lying about having nothing against doctors if the story is accurate. [/QUOTE] This is probably true. Or they could be poor and uninsured. The story said they moved to WI to start a business, but who knows w\how that was doing. And people who are self-employed in small business often don’t have health insurance, or they drop it if if the business is having problems. But I do prefer your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/19 "2008-03-27T02:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] The girl had seen a doctor when she was three and attended public school at the age of 10, which you can’t do unless your vaccinations are kept up, which means she’d seen a medical professional fairly recently. [/QUOTE] Wisconsin not only allows religious exemptions, they also allow “personal belief” exemptions to keep kids from getting vaccinated. So no, their kids did not necessarily have to have vaccinations. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864/20 "2008-03-27T02:54:03Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] Maybe the parents made a bad decision, maybe there was a flaw in the medical care the girl had received up to the point of her final illness, maybe one or more people are lying and maybe the linked report is unreliable. But I, no fan of science-denying religions, don’t quite see anything blameworthy yet. [/QUOTE] From the article in the OP: ‘Officers went to the home after a relative in California asked police to check on the girl. She was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead.’ When were the parents planning to ask for professional help? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-prayed-over-daughter-instead-of-bringing-her-to-a-doctor/442864.md?page=2)