[QUOTE=WhyNot]
I don’t think you have any way of knowing that. My mother-in-law wants me to take the kids in to the doctor for the slightest sniffle - sniffles which even the doctor says, “don’t bother, wait and see.” I don’t think it ever occurred to her to call the police, thank goodness!
[/QUOTE]
Well, that´s the point; it´s not as if Aunt Polly called the parents nagging about sending the girl to a doctor, they called the frigging police to go and check her out. You don´t call the police in a situation like that unless is the most extreme of circumstances.
[QUOTE=Tenebras]
Silly goose. Poor kids can’t afford doctors.
[/QUOTE]
No no no. Poor people don’t deserve doctors. Please report to a political re-education facility for a brief refresher.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Faith is NOT good. Faith IS stupidity. Claiming faith is good is rather silly in a thread about a child killed by faith.
This is simply yet another example of how religion is a plague upon humanity.
[/QUOTE]
Oh my God, you’re right. Your incessant pissing all over religion has finally convinced me I must be wrong! Praise be, I’ve seen the light! At last, I’ve been shown the error of my despicable and horrific ways!
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
And, FWIW, don’t attribute the actions of these morons in the OP-linked story with faith – it’s pure purblind refusal to face reality.
[/QUOTE]
That’s what faith is; the denial of reality.
[QUOTE=Kythereia]
Oh my God, you’re right. Your incessant pissing all over religion has finally convinced me I must be wrong! Praise be, I’ve seen the light! At last, I’ve been shown the error of my despicable and horrific ways!
[/QUOTE]
If all the people who’ve suffered and died because of it, and all of it’s errors, irrationality and evil hasn’t convinced you that religion is a bad thing - then it’s highly unlikely that anything I or anyone says will convince you.
[QUOTE=aptronym]
grr you don’t see people railing on atheism every time an atheist does something dumb, do you?
[/QUOTE]
That’s silly. This little girl died because her parents were religious. They weren’t just religious people that did something dumb. Faith in god is DIRECTLY responsible for her death. Can you think of an example of atheism directly causing this same kind of tragedy?
[QUOTE=The King of Soup]
These people don’t seem to be anti-medicine, either by their own testimony or by their actions. The girl had seen a doctor when she was three and attended public school at the age of 10, which you can’t do unless your vaccinations are kept up, which means she’d seen a medical professional fairly recently. The dad attempted CPR, which is not something people who are taught as a matter of faith to leave everything to God would do. The girl’s symptoms were nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, thirst and weakness, which depending on their apparent severity may not appear to be a medical emergency. In spite of the fact that she had apparently seen doctors there was no existing diagnosis that would have helped her parents interpret her symptoms as anything more than a minor illness that could be treated with fluids and rest. The police chief said she had probably been ill for a month, but observable symptoms began (according to those observing them) two weeks before she died, with the possibility of serious illness showing up only a couple of days earlier, and even then there was a (reported) upturn that might reasonably have delayed soliciting medical care.
Maybe the parents made a bad decision, maybe there was a flaw in the medical care the girl had received up to the point of her final illness, maybe one or more people are lying and maybe the linked report is unreliable. But I, no fan of science-denying religions, don’t quite see anything blameworthy yet.
[/QUOTE]
Your statement that she had apparently seen doctors is not supported by the article, and contradicted by it.
They even admit there was a serious situation, and yet didn’t do anything but pray for at least a day. Since she was home schooled, there is no reason at all to believe that she had seen a doctor for at least a year, or two, even if you were correct about the vaccinations. You mean that no diagnosis a year ago indicates that nothing could have sprung up between then and when that poor girl died?
Why are you justifying the actions of murderers again? I hope their other kids are taken from them and given to someone who will protect them. The scumbag parents don’t even show remorse.
[QUOTE=Una Persson]
It’s absolutely disgusting and indefensible. Since I actually fucking went through undiagnosed and untreated Type 1 diabetes and unlike 99% of folks here know firsthand the absolute physical and mental torture the girl went through, I can’t really trust myself to say any more on this message board.
[/QUOTE]
Ditto that, a million times. It’s not like Wisconsin doesn’t have some of the leading endocrinologists in the country, either. Or that a trip to the emergency room the day before might have turned things around damn quick. I was too young when I was diagnosed to really remember anything about how I felt other than that it was scary to be sick and separated from my parents, but I know that it took them a lot less than two weeks to take me to a doctor, which is the only appropriate action in this situation.
This situation just makes me really mad. I like to think that if a child started having dizzy spells, vomiting, and smelled like a brewery thanks to all the sugar coming out their pores, their parents would maybe see a doctor. Or call a nurse hotline. Or maybe talk to one those doctor friends the father mentions in the article. “Shucks, some of my best friends are doctors, hurr hurr.”
These things aren’t supposed to happen today. Nobody’s ever been prayed free of diabetes.
When I skimmed the quoted article, I misread and thought it said “The family moved to Weston from California about two years ago to open a coffin shop” :smack:
Well, I guess they can’t get a discount after all.
People are idiots. When someone is sick, you seek medical attention. Not only that, but if you don’t like what you hear, you take that person to one doctor after another.
I know this from personal experience. My SO was basically written off as a lost cause and told to get his affairs in order. (Liver failure caused by undetected Hepatitis) They gave him six months to live - tops. I refused to believe that and took him to another doctor, and yes, another doctor. Finally we found a doctor who read medical journals and he suggested a radical new surgical treatment (Called TIPS - previously only used as a stop gap, now found to be long-term treatment!).
Now, five years after he was supposed to be dead, he is healthy, working full time and in perfect health.
I suppose I could have sat by his bed and prayed…but call me a lunatic - I believe in science and evolution and the power of knocking down doors until I get the answers to questions.
Those parents should be sent to prison for manslaughter.
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
The whole concept of ‘faith healing’ is presumptuous. Accord to the popular mythology, god alone knows who will live, and who will die. Praying for a medical outcome directly confronts god’s will. Presuming that god will change his will in response to prayer is the height of arrogance, or at least inconsistent with the concept of an omnipotent god.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Makes you wonder what on earth that fatuous Galilean asshole thought he was blethering on about, doesn’t it? Fancy teaching people to think they can go about asking God for things! :rolleyes:
Or they could be poor and uninsured. The story said they moved to WI to start a business, but who knows w\how that was doing. And people who are self-employed in small business often don’t have health insurance, or they drop it if if the business is having problems.
But I do prefer your answer.
[/QUOTE]
In those cases, wouldn’t the kids be eligible for CHiPS or the above mentioned BadgerCare? And even if they weren’t anti-vaccination, haven’t they heard about yearly check-ups?
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
So it’s purely voluntary on your part?
And, FWIW, don’t attribute the actions of these morons in the OP-linked story with faith – it’s pure purblind refusal to face reality.
[/QUOTE]
Once again, Polycarp demonstrates why I adore him.
[QUOTE=Tenebras]
I can just barely understand calling a doctor to pray for your child, but calling the police? I’d rather they were out catching murderers and stuff like that than praying over toddlers.
[/QUOTE]
Are you missing my intentions entirely or just trolling?
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
And even if they weren’t anti-vaccination, haven’t they heard about yearly check-ups?
[/QUOTE]
What’s that?
Kidding aside, I don’t think I went in for yearly checkups myself–I don’t recall ever being to a doctor unless I was sick enough to be worth worrying over, which for me meant hardly ever seeing a doctor as aside from colds and the yearly flu, I was rarely sick (and what vaccinations I did have after starting school were administered through the school.) In other words, it had to be quite clearly not one of those two things for me to be taken in–this in Canada where the cost of a doctor’s visit is nil. While the parents may have dropped the ball a bit on the last day or two, if she was only a bit tired before then, and then showing what they thought was the flu, I can see them not taking her in right away.
[QUOTE=Una Persson]
While your description of the results of a case of undiagnosed+untreated diabetes are an accurate description as it sometimes happens, as a factual note you can indeed be much higher than 795 and be perfectly conscious, and many diabetics in poor control will routinely “max out” their meter (often meaning 550 or higher) and appear perfectly normal. A guy I know who had chronic poor control routinely ended up in the 600’s for short times.
I was…1100? I think when I was admitted, and I walked in. Went to sleep and didn’t wake up for two days, but…when I was in another kid was brought in with a blood sugar of about 500 at admission, and he never woke up. Not fun having your roommate die from the same thing you’re admitted for at age 12/13, and watching it happen.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, my brother (also 12/13 at diagnosis) had a blood sugar of over 800 and appeared absolutely fine.
The daughter died from Type 1 insulin dependent diabetes - as a former medical lab tech, I can tell you with that this is a common disease that is screened for every damned time someone has tests ordered by a doctor - the screen is a simple urine dipstick testing for glucose in the urine (you should never have glucose in your urine). Every time I get any tests ordered by a doctor, a urinalysis is always included, and I don’t imagine US healthcare is all that different in this case. The girl was not just a little tired for a month - I am pretty darned sure she was exhibiting all kinds of symptoms. You don’t starve to death without showing some symptoms, which is what this girl did.
Her parents were horribly negligent. There is no doubt in my mind that the girl didn’t present as sick enough or some such bullshit - the symptoms of juvenile-onset diabetes are clear and specific, the testing is easy and non-invasive - there is no excuse for this to have happened. Kids get diabetes all the time, and somehow all those other parents seem to know enough to take their kid to the doctor. Especially if the mom is a nurse - she should know better than anyone what the common symptoms of diabetes and ketoacidosis are, since as an ER nurse she would see (and smell) uncontrolled diabetics all the time. Bleargh - people suck.
‘Officers went to the home after a relative in California asked police to check on the girl. She was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead.’
When were the parents planning to ask for professional help?
[/QUOTE]
Until after Easter, just in case.
[QUOTE=featherlou]
The daughter died from Type 1 insulin dependent diabetes - as a former medical lab tech, I can tell you with that this is a common disease that is screened for every damned time someone has tests ordered by a doctor - the screen is a simple urine dipstick testing for glucose in the urine (you should never have glucose in your urine). Every time I get any tests ordered by a doctor, a urinalysis is always included, and I don’t imagine US healthcare is all that different in this case. The girl was not just a little tired for a month - I am pretty darned sure she was exhibiting all kinds of symptoms. You don’t starve to death without showing some symptoms, which is what this girl did.
Her parents were horribly negligent. There is no doubt in my mind that the girl didn’t present as sick enough or some such bullshit - the symptoms of juvenile-onset diabetes are clear and specific, the testing is easy and non-invasive - there is no excuse for this to have happened. Kids get diabetes all the time, and somehow all those other parents seem to know enough to take their kid to the doctor. Especially if the mom is a nurse - she should know better than anyone what the common symptoms of diabetes and ketoacidosis are, since as an ER nurse she would see (and smell) uncontrolled diabetics all the time. Bleargh - people suck.
[/QUOTE]
I think you’re conflating two stories. It was my friend, not the woman in the linked article, who is an ER nurse who missed the early symptoms of her daughter’s diabetes and nearly, but didn’t, lose her. And who was reassured by every doctor and nurse she lamented her guilt to afterwards that sometimes, you just don’t see these things in kids you’re close to. I’m terribly sorry for your loss, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But not every kid shows big symptoms for diabetes.
There is no routine screen for diabetes in the US at pediatric visits, at least in our state. (At least from her doctor and my doctor, the only two who I asked directly after this happened.) While annual exams might have found some things, it would not find diabetes.
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
The whole concept of ‘faith healing’ is presumptuous. Accord to the popular mythology, god alone knows who will live, and who will die. Praying for a medical outcome directly confronts god’s will. Presuming that god will change his will in response to prayer is the height of arrogance, or at least inconsistent with the concept of an omnipotent god.
[/QUOTE]
Amen brother or sister- what I came to say, only not as succintly or eloquently as you did. God was going to kill your kid, but since you asked him nicely not to he changed his mind? :rolleyes:
God was going to kill your kid, but since you asked him nicely not to he changed his mind? :rolleyes: