# Parents Upset: School Did Not Notify Them Their Daughter Was Not Graduating **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176 "2018-07-02T18:10:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/1 "2018-07-02T18:10:11Z")
Parents [of an Arlington County high schooler](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/their-daughter-wasnt-graduating-why-didnt-they-know-till-graduation-day/2018/07/01/b232ecba-7a3c-11e8-93cc-6d3beccdd7a3_story.html?utm_term=.dfa8fc967ae4) are angry at Yorktown High School. Their daughter failed English, and could not graduate. The school maintained a website that let them see their daughter’s grades, but “N/A” appeared for the English grade. The parents sent two emails to a school counselor asking what the grade was, but the counselor did not answer. At 3 AM the day of graduation, the daughter told her parents that she had failed English and would not graduate. When the parents contacted the school to demand answers as to why they were never informed their daughter was in jeopardy, the school advised them that their daughter, who was 18, had directed the school not to tell her parents anything about her English grade. The school was obligated by federal law to accede to this demand. 20 USC § 1232g provides a strong requirement that student records are to be made available to parents upon request, but it also says: > [@](#): > > d) Students’ rather than parents’ permission or consent > For the purposes of this section, whenever a student has attained eighteen years of age, or is attending an institution of postsecondary education, the permission or consent required of and the rights accorded to the parents of the student shall thereafter only be required of and accorded to the student. The Washington Post article linked above expresses the belief that the school should have figured out a way to defeat the law: > [@](#): > > Even if the law kept the Yorktown counselor from telling the parents about the failed course, couldn’t she have emailed them that she wasn’t allowed to answer their question? Or maybe she could have said something helpful, such as “Don’t invite relatives to graduation”? In my experience, school administrators can devise roundabout ways to convey vital information. I have no idea what the Post’s reaction might be if the school had responded, “We can’t tell you a thing, but nudge nudge wink wink don’t invite relatives to graduation, unless it’s a Classy English invitation that needs improvement, if you know what I mean,” and the student had sued for damages under FERPA, but I can easily imagine an article that criticizes the school for violating the spirit, and possibly the letter, of the law. For debate: did the school act legally? Did they act ethically? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/2 "2018-07-02T18:14:49Z")
I think the school should have told the parents that that information is available only from the student. They should not be in the business of finding ways to violate a law. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/3 "2018-07-02T18:25:42Z")
I don’t feel like the school did anything wrong here–18 means something. I really, really wish school districts would publish some sort of document setting out exactly what changes when a student turns 18 (or gets married, which I think may also change things, at least in some states). Can they sign their own permission slips? Can they check themselves out for doctor’s appointments? Can they sign excuse notes? Do they need excuse notes? Are they allowed to discuss grades with parents unless and until the student tells them not to? I feel like schools don’t want to open a can of worms by letting students know their rights, but I’d really rather know. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/4 "2018-07-02T18:26:17Z")
I agree. She’s 18, she’s an adult, and she has a right to keep information from her parents, even if she’s still living with them and dependent on them financially. The school acted legally, and IMO, ethically. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/5 "2018-07-02T18:26:30Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I think the school should have told the parents that that information is available only from the student. They should not be in the business of finding ways to violate a law. Me too. I hate it when schools act like an 18 year old is not a legal adult. When one of my daughters was 18 and came home with a permission slip, I told her to sign it. She said it had to be a parent. I told her to tell the school she didn’t have any parents for purposes of school permissions. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/6 "2018-07-02T18:34:34Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I don’t feel like the school did anything wrong here–18 means something. > > I really, really wish school districts would publish some sort of document setting out exactly what changes when a student turns 18 (or gets married, which I think may also change things, at least in some states). Can they sign their own permission slips? Can they check themselves out for doctor’s appointments? Can they sign excuse notes? Do they need excuse notes? Are they allowed to discuss grades with parents unless and until the student tells them not to? I agree with this, a standard document that gets sent out. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/7 "2018-07-02T18:34:59Z")
The school acted legally. I’m not so sure about ethically, mainly because I don’t see any legal or ethical problem if the school had replied to the email with a statement that they were legally prohibited from disclosing that information to the parent, or that they were only permitted to disclose that information to the student since she was over the age of 18. [hijack] What I don’t understand is why people like the reporter and the mother ( who appears to teach at the university level) would believe that the law set a line between high school students and college students rather than distinguishing between those under 18 and those over 18- I doubt very much either of them would be OK with a college that would not communicate with the parents of a 16 year old student. [/hijack} ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/8 "2018-07-02T18:40:42Z")
I’m not sure it’s legal for a school to tell parents about the request for confidentiality. In other words, I wonder if the request for confidentiality has to be kept confidential. It is, after all, part of the student’s record. The parents sent two emails but never bothered to call when they got no reply? And when did they send those emails? The day before the girl confessed? Did they contact the English teacher? None of those would have gotten them information, but they would have shown some effort on the parents’ part. We also don’t know if the guidance counselor or anyone else tried to convince the child waiting to tell her parents was a very bad idea. Parents often have a hard time dealing with the fact their baby is now legally an adult. When I taught college as an adjunct, I sometimes got calls from parents about student grades, and I could only advise them to ask their kid. This girl sounds pretty immature if she’s hiding her grade from her parents, but the law says 18, and it sounds to me like the school’s hands were tied. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/9 "2018-07-02T18:53:21Z")
I think the school was precisely right in every way - not answering at all because it’s none of the parents’ business. Any answer at all, even “We aren’t permitted to answer that” - IS an answer in itself, for the purposes of this particular case. Though I do agree that a “When Students Turn 18” letter - mailed directly to parents through the post office - might be a necessary add-on. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/10 "2018-07-02T19:06:06Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > I think the school was precisely right in every way - not answering at all because it’s none of the parents’ business. Any answer at all, even “We aren’t permitted to answer that” - IS an answer in itself, for the purposes of this particular case. How is " We aren’t permitted to answer that" an answer in itself?- it’s not like the school is only prohibited from giving the parents negative information - that’s the answer the school should give even if the 18 year old is graduating at the top of her class. And you can’t assume that the 18 year old would certainly have given the school permission to disclose her information had her grades been good enough to graduate- there are plenty of reasons for an 18 year old to refuse that permission, including having parents who are surprised that the 18 year old’s permission is even needed. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/11 "2018-07-02T19:08:44Z")
I wouldn’t describe the school’s action as illegal or unethical, but certainly unprofessional. Just ignoring the parents inquiries isn’t the solution. I also don’t think they should have given the parents a “wink, wink, nudge, nudge” that the student was failing. A response that simply cited the school’s obligations under the law would have been appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/12 "2018-07-02T19:27:05Z")
I don’t know how the parents didn’t know until the end of the year about the student’s grade. My kids attend Maryland schools, and they use that same system. I can see their grades in almost real time. It’s completely ridiculous the parents didn’t know at the end of every quarter what the grade was and were suddenly surprised at the end of the year. That said, is there something that prevents the school from answering “Sorry, US Code such and such prevents us from providing any information about your student’s grades without the student’s permission”? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/13 "2018-07-02T19:39:00Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > How is " We aren’t permitted to answer that" an answer in itself?- it’s not like the school is only prohibited from giving the parents negative information - that’s the answer the school should give even if the 18 year old is graduating at the top of her class. And you can’t assume that the 18 year old would certainly have given the school permission to disclose her information had her grades been good enough to graduate- there are plenty of reasons for an 18 year old to refuse that permission, including having parents who are surprised that the 18 year old’s permission is even needed. My idea was along the lines of what others have described as a “wink wink nudge nudge” answer - that saying anything at all would amount to one of those. But reading what you’ve just written, I think that’s not necessarily true. I think it’s more important to prevent the possibility of “wink wink” answers than it is to be clear to parents. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/14 "2018-07-02T19:41:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t know how the parents didn’t know until the end of the year about the student’s grade. My kids attend Maryland schools, and they use that same system. I can see their grades in almost real time. It’s completely ridiculous the parents didn’t know at the end of every quarter what the grade was and were suddenly surprised at the end of the year. > > That said, is there something that prevents the school from answering “Sorry, US Code such and such prevents us from providing any information about your student’s grades without the student’s permission”? If all who might answer are in agreement that they will give ONLY the stock scripted answer NO MATTER WHAT, then I think that’s the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/15 "2018-07-02T19:43:30Z")
This clearly doesn’t rise to same level, but under HIPAA and state law, I regularly have to tell parents and guardians that I am unable to provide any information directly to them without an ROI. I’m not going to say the school’s decision to go radio silent was unethical, but I would argue that it’s not best practice. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/16 "2018-07-02T19:58:59Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t know how the parents didn’t know until the end of the year about the student’s grade. My kids attend Maryland schools, and they use that same system. I can see their grades in almost real time. It’s completely ridiculous the parents didn’t know at the end of every quarter what the grade was and were suddenly surprised at the end of the year. > > That said, is there something that prevents the school from answering “Sorry, US Code such and such prevents us from providing any information about your student’s grades without the student’s permission”? The thing is, though, is that by all rights these systems should shut down when the kid hits 18 and require a waiver to be reactivated. Generally, under 18 the parents have their own account. In our system, kids can’t even HAVE an account. At 18, parent accounts should quit working and kids should have to set up their own. In reality, no one worries about it because kids are only 18 for some portion of their last year and it’s a lot of logistics when no one really cares that much. The issue isn’t that the school didn’t communicate the English grade; it’s that they communicated the others. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/17 "2018-07-02T20:04:34Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The thing is, though, is that by all rights these systems should shut down when the kid hits 18 and require a waiver to be reactivated. Generally, under 18 the parents have their own account. In our system, kids can’t even HAVE an account. At 18, parent accounts should quit working and kids should have to set up their own. In reality, no one worries about it because kids are only 18 for some portion of their last year and it’s a lot of logistics when no one really cares that much. > > The issue isn’t that the school didn’t communicate the English grade; it’s that they communicated the others. True, but I also have my kids logins as well. Makes it easier to see what their assignments and such are. And when they turn 18, I’ll still have their logins. And I will know what their grades are every quarter when report cards come out. Did these parents see their kids grade for each quarter before the last one? If so, they should know how she was doing in the class. And if not, they were screwing up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/18 "2018-07-02T20:14:59Z")
I’m very frequently asked questions at work that I cannot provide the answer to, due to various confidentiality policies and so forth. I just say that I can’t answer the question. I agree with the others that the school should have done the same. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/19 "2018-07-02T20:35:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > True, but I also have my kids logins as well. Makes it easier to see what their assignments and such are. And when they turn 18, I’ll still have their logins. And I will know what their grades are every quarter when report cards come out. Did these parents see their kids grade for each quarter before the last one? If so, they should know how she was doing in the class. And if not, they were screwing up. The fact that you aren’t abusing your kids says nothing about other parents. Parent access (by any method at all) should by rights automatically disappear when the kids turn 18, and should wait until the kid decides to turn it on. The 18-year-old should be the one who flips the switch to turn parent access on or off at any time. By default, you should have the same access to your 18-year-old’s school record as your next door neighbour has to your medical record. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176/20 "2018-07-02T20:43:26Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > The fact that you aren’t abusing your kids says nothing about other parents. Parent access (by any method at all) should by rights automatically disappear when the kids turn 18, and should wait until the kid decides to turn it on. The 18-year-old should be the one who flips the switch to turn parent access on or off at any time. By default, you should have the same access to your 18-year-old’s school record as your next door neighbour has to your medical record. If the parents are paying for their schooling/housing I think it is fair for the parents to tell their child their access stays on. If the child flips the switch to turn off access the parents flip the switch to turn off financial support. I do agree it is the child’s choice once they turn 18, just let them know their choices have consequences. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-upset-school-did-not-notify-them-their-daughter-was-not-graduating/817176.md?page=2)