# Parents urge changes to prevent something which didn't happen-Logic abandons hope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311 "2008-01-12T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/1 "2008-01-12T18:48:38Z")
A sixth grader alleged earlier this week that she was [assaulted by a construction worker in a middle school rest room](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.co.assault12jan12,0,1961856.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout), yet police have determined the incident didn’t take place. Unhampered by fact, these gems were offered: > [@](#): > > parents said the incident helped raise awareness about the potential dangers posed by contractors working in the buildings during the school day I agree. Police should also be stationed on rooftops to watch for a band of rabid yetis. > [@](#): > > construction projects such as the two-year renovation under way at the school should be limited to weekends, holidays and summer Not a problem. Don’t bitch when the project cost triples and takes 5 years to complete. > [@](#): > > Even if a school is a good school, bad things can happen. Instead of waiting for something to really happen, they should make some changes I suggest you chair the Committee to Prevent Anything and Everything Unforeseen. Going by my limited memory, over the last year, how many reports of sexual encounters between students and construction workers have hit my news screen? Zero In that same space fo time, how many reports of sexual encounters between students and teachers have hit my news screen? Dozens Mr. Wrongtree therefore advises parents to cease upbarking. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/2 "2008-01-12T19:39:55Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] A sixth grader alleged earlier this week that she was [assaulted by a construction worker in a middle school rest room](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.co.assault12jan12,0,1961856.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout), yet police have determined the incident didn’t take place. Unhampered by fact, these gems were offered: I agree. Police should also be stationed on rooftops to watch for a band of rabid yetis.Not a problem. Don’t bitch when the project cost triples and takes 5 years to complete.I suggest you chair the Committee to Prevent Anything and Everything Unforeseen. Going by my limited memory, over the last year, how many reports of sexual encounters between students and construction workers have hit my news screen? Zero In that same space fo time, how many reports of sexual encounters between students and teachers have hit my news screen? Dozens Mr. Wrongtree therefore advises parents to cease upbarking. [/QUOTE] Did you expect anything less in our “Let’s Protect the Children From Life” nonsense that has taken over our society in the past 20 to 30 years? I remember when I was growing up, once we got off of the main road into our residential neighborhood, my dad would put me on his lap and let me steer the car while he operated the pedals. Today he would go to jail because I wasn’t in my federally approved child-safety seat. Since we have already outlawed REAL things that are potentially dangerous for kids, we have to outlaw PRETEND things that might be dangerous. What else are these shreiking soccer moms and rich country club Republican dads going to do? Quit whining? Hell no.. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/3 "2008-01-12T21:24:21Z")
So we should wait until something bad happens before changing policy? I don’t know if something should be changed in this instance, but it’s silly to wait until something happens before addressing dangers. For example, how many times did terrorists fly planes into buildings before 9/11? None, but we sure wish we would have done something to stop that. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/4 "2008-01-12T22:08:40Z")
[QUOTE=treis] So we should wait until something bad happens before changing policy? I don’t know if something should be changed in this instance, but it’s silly to wait until something happens before addressing dangers. For example, how many times did terrorists fly planes into buildings before 9/11? None, but we sure wish we would have done something to stop that. [/QUOTE] The problem with that philosophy is that if you take it to its logical extreme you end up staying in bed all day. Plus, this is not a neutral decision. I’d argue that if one goes overboard with things that might have happened you are teaching those kids a lot of very damaging lessons. Things like - don’t trust people, suspect the worst of all people at all times. Don’t trust blue collar and working class people. They are up to no good. You shouldn’t even have to see them, actually, it’s better that your enviroment magically become fixed than to have to gaze upon lower classes… and number one: BE AFRAID If something hasn’t bad happened to you yet - don’t worry it will. Only by paranoid eternal vigilence will you stay in one piece. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/5 "2008-01-12T22:14:40Z")
I’m sending the link to my husband, a supervisor at an international construction management company. He says that his company’s policy for working in schools (and any other public place) is that the work is done in an established safe zone - the kids aren’t allowed in, and the workers aren’t allowed to roam freely. They also have separate washroom facilities at every job site. I’d be a lot more concerned about kids wandering through a working job site and getting injured than getting raped, and that is certainly being addressed already. Can they guarantee that no worker will ever have contact with a student? Of course not. If a construction worker happens to be a pedophile, all he has to do is wait around after work or follow a kid home or something - this strikes me as an unpreventable thing. Background checks, fingerprinting, and work only being done evenings and weekends simply isn’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/6 "2008-01-12T22:20:55Z")
They said that the girl admitted to lying…did she actually admit to lying, per se, though, or is this a case of a retracted confession? I’m always wary of accusing assualt victims of lying when they don’t want to push forward. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/7 "2008-01-12T22:22:06Z")
[QUOTE=treis] So we should wait until something bad happens before changing policy? [/QUOTE] No. And not only that, we shouldn’t necessarily change policy when something bad _does_ happen. Most of the time, it does no good anyway. Air travel since 9-11 is NOT any safer than it was prior; it’s just more inconvenient for the rest of us. If someone really wants to hijack a jetliner and fly it into a building and they are determined and resourceful enough, they’ll find a way to do it, and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/8 "2008-01-12T22:43:57Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] I remember when I was growing up, once we got off of the main road into our residential neighborhood, my dad would put me on his lap and let me steer the car while he operated the pedals. Today he would go to jail because I wasn’t in my federally approved child-safety seat. [/QUOTE] When you were growing up, there also weren’t any airbags that’d seriously hurt you if they went off because someone crashed into your dad’s car. Not that it’d relate to the situation in your OP, but yours didn’t really either. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/9 "2008-01-12T22:51:03Z")
[QUOTE=Long Time First Time] The problem with that philosophy is that if you take it to its logical extreme you end up staying in bed all day. [/QUOTE] " By further figuring, it appeared that between New York and Rochester the Erie ran eight passenger-trains each way every day–16 altogether; and carried a daily average of 6,000 persons. That is about a million in six months–the population of New York City. Well, the Erie kills from 13 to 23 persons of ITS million in six months; and in the same time 13,000 of New York’s million die in their beds! My flesh crept, my hair stood on end. “This is appalling!” I said. “The danger isn’t in traveling by rail, but in trusting to those deadly beds. I will never sleep in a bed again.” " [Beds are dangerous!](http://www.mtwain.com/The_Danger_Of_Lying_In_Bed/0.html) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/10 "2008-01-12T22:54:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ferret Herder] When you were growing up, there also weren’t any airbags that’d seriously hurt you if they went off because someone crashed into your dad’s car. Not that it’d relate to the situation in your OP, but yours didn’t really either. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but the same situation I talked about MANDATED airbags in cars to PROTECT the children, until they were discovered to KILL children, then we were told to keep children in the REAR seat, in REAR facing SAFETY seats, to keep children safe from the 2nd mandate for their OWN safety… ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/11 "2008-01-12T22:58:47Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Yeah, but the same situation I talked about MANDATED airbags in cars to PROTECT the children, until they were discovered to KILL children, then we were told to keep children in the REAR seat, in REAR facing SAFETY seats, to keep children safe from the 2nd mandate for their OWN safety… [/QUOTE] No, airbags are to protect passengers, not children specifically, and safety recommendations have been for children to ride in the rear seat since long before airbags were around. Go on and froth at the mouth about all of the ridiculous safety regulations we impose on kids these days, and I’ll agree with a lot of it. But not child safety seats. They’re a good idea, and the reason that all of us here today rode around unrestrained and lived to tell the tale is that the ones that didn’t live aren’t here to tell the tale. There are plenty of those. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/12 "2008-01-12T23:28:43Z")
“construction projects such as the two-year renovation under way at the school should be limited to weekends, holidays and summer” Right, because those dirty, low class workers don’t have lives of their own. They don’t have kids themselves, or social obligations, or the right to have time off. They don’t deserve regular working hours because they might theoretically come into contact with our precious spawn. Homeowners who do this drive me nuts. Listen. We’re professionals. We don’t care about your kids, your salt shaker collection, or your John Tesh CD’s. We’re not going to leer at your kids, or steal anything, and we’re not going to smell your underwear. If you are that uncomfortable having a stranger in your house than you are more than welcome to stay home. But don’t bitch because you have to take off work, and don’t try to require us to work evenings or weekends. But if you’re home anyways, can you make us some cookies, or order a pizza? Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/13 "2008-01-13T00:07:53Z")
[QUOTE=MsWhatsit] No, airbags are to protect passengers, not children specifically, and safety recommendations have been for children to ride in the rear seat since long before airbags were around. Go on and froth at the mouth about all of the ridiculous safety regulations we impose on kids these days, and I’ll agree with a lot of it. But not child safety seats. They’re a good idea, and the reason that all of us here today rode around unrestrained and lived to tell the tale is that the ones that didn’t live aren’t here to tell the tale. There are plenty of those. [/QUOTE] Sure child safety seats are a “good idea”. So are a lot of other things. But, getting back to the OP and making the construction workers work on weekends and holidays because of a pretend problem, do you wish to MANDATE their use or simply advocate them? The reason why I bring it up is because the OPs statement is just a logical example of the slope we slid down 25 years ago with child seats: Are free people in a free country responsible for their own family’s safety, or should our masters in government force it upon us? It is a varying degree but it doesn’t stop. What do you think would have been the response if you took a poll in 1970 regarding mandatory child restraints? Seat belts mandatory for adults? 21 year old drinking age? Hate speech laws? Smoking bans in bars? Are we that advanced or more conditioned for our masters? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/14 "2008-01-13T00:16:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > So we should wait until something bad happens before changing policy? I don’t know if something should be changed in this instance, but it’s silly to wait until something happens before addressing dangers. For example, how many times did terrorists fly planes into buildings before 9/11? None, but we sure wish we would have done something to stop that. Someday, Godwin’s Law will refer to Arabic terrorists, not Nazis. Looks like this thread has already ended at post #3. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/15 "2008-01-13T00:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Going by my limited memory, over the last year, how many reports of sexual encounters between students and construction workers have hit my news screen? Zero In that same space fo time, how many reports of sexual encounters between students and teachers have hit my news screen? Dozens [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, but teachers aren’t blue-collar neanderthals best known for hooting and wolf-whistling at pretty girls who walk past construction sites. Heck, many of them aren’t even male. So _they’re_ not sexual assaults waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/16 "2008-01-13T00:31:15Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Well, yeah, but teachers aren’t blue-collar neanderthals best known for hooting and wolf-whistling at pretty girls who walk past construction sites. Heck, many of them aren’t even male. So _they’re_ not sexual assaults waiting to happen. [/QUOTE] Uh huh. > **[Cells, texting give predators secret path to kids - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/11/teachers.charged/)** > > It's happened again. A teacher is accused of having sex with a student and, like many times before, cell phone calls and texting reportedly had a role in sexually abusing a minor. (yes, I know it was a whoosh.) ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/17 "2008-01-13T00:53:32Z")
[QUOTE=fisha] “construction projects such as the two-year renovation under way at the school should be limited to weekends, holidays and summer” Right, because those dirty, low class workers don’t have lives of their own. They don’t have kids themselves, or social obligations, or the right to have time off. They don’t deserve regular working hours because they might theoretically come into contact with our precious spawn. Homeowners who do this drive me nuts. Listen. We’re professionals. We don’t care about your kids, your salt shaker collection, or your John Tesh CD’s. We’re not going to leer at your kids, or steal anything, and we’re not going to smell your underwear. If you are that uncomfortable having a stranger in your house than you are more than welcome to stay home. But don’t bitch because you have to take off work, and don’t try to require us to work evenings or weekends. But if you’re home anyways, can you make us some cookies, or order a pizza? Sorry for the hijack. [/QUOTE] I never had a problem working off hours for the paranoid, they just paid a lot more for it. Then again, I did not want to share cookies or pizza with them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/18 "2008-01-13T00:54:36Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Well, yeah, but teachers aren’t blue-collar neanderthals best known for hooting and wolf-whistling at pretty girls who walk past construction sites. Heck, many of them aren’t even male. [/QUOTE] Yes, because _every_ construction worker acts like that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/19 "2008-01-13T00:57:10Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Well, yeah, but teachers aren’t blue-collar neanderthals best known for hooting and wolf-whistling at pretty girls who walk past construction sites. Heck, many of them aren’t even male. So _they’re_ not sexual assaults waiting to happen. [/QUOTE] Really? Is that what the professional tradespersons, men and women alike are best known for? Sorry, but in my construction career, I’ve enjoyed meeting and working with many women and men who comport themselves as ladies and gentlemen on the jobsite, as that is a reflection of their personal value system. Going back to my OP, I challenge you to provide a cite for incidents within the last year involving improper contact between construction workers and persons under 18 years of age which exceeds the number of incidents involving improper contact between teachers, teacher aides, and persons under 18 years of age. ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311/20 "2008-01-13T00:58:16Z")
_shrug_ I don’t know about the possible higher incidence of construction workers being kid diddlers, but school restrooms are IME a dangerous place. When I was in 3rd grade in…lessee, '81 I think, the one and only time in my life I’ve been assaulted happened there. At school, in the middle of the day, broad daylight. After that, the school instituted a mandatory buddy system when students needed to take a trip to the facilities. Small considerations like that are worth thinking about, but just like anything else, legislating and over the top reactions will serve no purpose. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-urge-changes-to-prevent-something-which-didnt-happen-logic-abandons-hope/433311.md?page=2)