# Parents- what is it that the rest of us can't understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532 "2009-04-18T15:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/21 "2009-04-18T23:28:05Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I think that they often can offer a valid perspective. And often their suggestions are well informed - by having younger siblings or nephews and nieces - or by common sense. > > But often non-parental opinions DO come off as naive. And, so very often, you get the triple whammy of naive, self righteous and judgmental. But you get that from other parents, too–no one on earth is as “naive, self righteous and judgmental” as the parents of a single child who happens/happened to be an even-tempered baby. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/22 "2009-04-18T23:30:00Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > I thought I had it all figured out after daughter #1, and was completely unprepared when EVERYTHING but the plumbing about daughter #2 was different. I mean NOTHING that worked well with the first one worked on the second; I was starting over from scratch. This is very true, and the basis for what I call the “parental fallacy” - otherwise known as “well it worked on MY child - of course it will work for yours!” In other words, SOME parents are just as prone to being obnoxiously ignorant about problems _they personally_ haven’t encountered as SOME non-parents are about - well, everything. In fact, an obnoxious know-it-all parent is even worse than the non-parental type, because you _can’t_ tell them they don’t know what parenting is like. (The “I know my child better than you do” defence is comparitively weak - anyone who’s ever had a “Oh, _my_ child was sleeping through the night from day 1” conversation will know what I mean here. I don’t think that non-parents can’t know anything about child-rearing. But there’s definitely some degree of knowledge of anything that can only be got by doing (and, in fact, I’d trust a primary school teacher’s assessment of “how to deal with 6-year-olds” better than, say, a parent of one 4-year-old who hasn’t had much to do with any other kids. There’s more than one way to get experience. (ETA: Snap!) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/23 "2009-04-18T23:37:37Z")
The only thing I have is that you will will probably love them and feel more protective than you thought possible. But after that. parenting is logic and consistency. Not that big a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/24 "2009-04-19T00:06:01Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But you get that from other parents, too–no one on earth is as “naive, self righteous and judgmental” as the parents of a single child who happens/happened to be an even-tempered baby. You do, but its different, and in fact, its worse. Because there is an innocence about the ‘advice’ from non-parents that is lacking from the ‘advice’ of established parents. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/25 "2009-04-19T00:11:12Z")
> [@vix](#): > > I agree with this, and have discovered it’s true even within the context of parenting. Before my son hit the terrible twos, I cluck-clucked at a friend’s son’s behavior, and her reactions to it. I wondered why she couldn’t control him better at times, why she didn’t do this or that. Now that my son acts out in similar ways, I have a better understanding of (and empathy towards) what she was going through. But, say a friend with children gave you a helpful hint towards raising your child? The rational reaction would be to apply it to your own circumstances, and if it worked, incorporate it into your child-rearing. But, what is there to stop someone who is childless from accumulating this knowledge and passing it on to others, thereby instructing via the experience and mistakes of other mothers/parents? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/26 "2009-04-19T00:44:58Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > But, say a friend with children gave you a helpful hint towards raising your child? > > The rational reaction would be to apply it to your own circumstances, and if it worked, incorporate it into your child-rearing. > > But, what is there to stop someone who is childless from accumulating this knowledge and passing it on to others, thereby instructing via the experience and mistakes of other mothers/parents? A friend who gave me a helpful hint would be damn careful about how they gave it. I would be damn careful about hints I give to other parents - to the point that I don’t think I ever have given such a hint, or if I did, it was so oblique that I don’t recall it as a hint. Even my closest friends and relative have significant differences in their child-raising techniques from me, and from each other. If the advice isn’t requested, it is likely not welcome. I don’t ask advice on driving from my underage children. I wouldn’t expect good advice on relationships from someone who has never been in one - probably a good thing I’m not Catholic, eh? No matter how many books someone has read, I’d be fairly skeptical of sex advice from someone who has never had sex. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/27 "2009-04-19T01:34:40Z")
Having a non-parent chime in on a converation regarding parenting is like having a blind man join a converstion about the pros and cons of the color green. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/28 "2009-04-19T01:43:14Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But you get that from other parents, too–no one on earth is as “naive, self righteous and judgmental” as the parents of a single child who happens/happened to be an even-tempered baby. Hell yes. Second after them come the new parents who’ve read tons of baby manuals and know for _certain_ what they’ll do when their child reaches the age of 2/5/13 or whatever. Because they are parents, after all, they don’t even like to concede that their POV is still limited. I try to bear this in mind, since I only have one child and she’s a girl and only ten. I do have a lot of contact with teenage boys (through work!) so can offer my perspective based on that - but I am not the parent of a teenage boy. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > But, say a friend with children gave you a helpful hint towards raising your child? > > The rational reaction would be to apply it to your own circumstances, and if it worked, incorporate it into your child-rearing. > > But, what is there to stop someone who is childless from accumulating this knowledge and passing it on to others, thereby instructing via the experience and mistakes of other mothers/parents? There’s no harm in it at all, _if advice has been asked for_. Some non-parenting experiences can also be very informative - like, say, being the eldest in a big family - and everyone has been a child, so yes, non-parents can be helpful sources of advice sometimes. However, there’s a difference between suggesting something when advice has been asked for, and making judgmental ‘MY child wouldn’t do that’ or ‘you SHOULD/SHOULDN’T do that’ statements, which you do see a lot. It happens in other circumstances too - some people think they know everything about teaching because they were at school once, or everything about healthcare because they, too, have been sick - but the parenting one comes up more often. Non-parents also simply can’t understand ‘being a parent,’ rather than issues about child-raising. It really does change you more than you could ever anticipate. Same as I can’t understand being a man, or being elderly (yet). I can tell you my male friends’ experiences, but I can’t know what it’s like to actually be male. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/29 "2009-04-19T05:22:03Z")
It’s really a whole host of things that IMHO come down to the way a parent will, to certain extents, relinquish their own ‘human rights’ and identity in order to ensure the happiness and survival of their kids…willingly and without qualms. Many years ago I got into a bit of bother on another messageboard because I made the claim that it is only parents who can experience full selflessness. I still believe this to be true, because the relationship of a parent and child is not a consciously formed one…it is partly biological, it is also entrenched in the deepest love that only a parent can feel for a child: no other person comes close, especially in the early years. Sure, you can love your friends and your extended family, but there comes a time for all individuals when ‘demands’ upon them will be met with reluctance…either overtly or just as a sense of being put upon. With your child, particularly in the early years, you don’t think twice. It’s something only a parent can understand. Even when your kids are (supposedly) independent adults and do all sorts of crazy shit that you would NEVER tolerate from a friend or other family member, for some reason those bonds you share with your kid/s allow you to still love them and care for their welfare. At least IME and humble opinion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/30 "2009-04-19T11:04:43Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > **ITD** , It seems that what you’re talking about goes go beyond **JohnT** ’s statement about realizing you’re in it for the long haul, and are 100% responsible. Could you give an example? hah- sorry, I was busy with my kids and couldn’t check back! 🙂 I was among the first of my group to have kids. Some of my friends just didn’t get how complicated having a child was and more importantly, how every child is frustratingly unique! Sometimes they would give me advice (not often though- I had clever friends! :)) about what worked with them as a kid, or something they read or saw on TV. The didn’t understand that I often had a really good sense of what worked and didn’t with my children and that a strategy that worked really well with your nephew/neighbor’s kid/little brother wouldn’t work with my child. Or sometimes a really good idea won’t work RIGHT NOW because my kid is sick/hungry/overtired/scared whatever. It wasn’t the advice giving \*per se \*that was frustrating- it was sometimes the casual flippiness that comes along with it- as if you haven’t tried different ideas etc. I guess it’s like war buddies- unless you were in the trenches toegther, you really don’t get it. That being said, **Manda Jo** nailed it: NO ONE is as bad a the parent of an even tempered single child. That was my SIL. I gave birth to the most intense, colicky, never-sleeping child ever. She had the child you run a marching band through her room and she woudn’t wake up. Clearly, I was just doing it wrong. The when I had a second kid- she just couldn’t not get why it wasn’t so ealy for me and why most things I learned with kid 1 went out the window. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/31 "2009-04-19T14:25:59Z")
My wife and I sometimes talk about “The Parent Zone”. It’s an alternate dimension that exists in parallel with the real world and impinges on it from time to time, but for the most part is completely invisible. When your first child is born you magically gain the ability to step into The Parent Zone and you realize that all sorts of things have been happening all around you that, until now, have been hidden from you. It’s like discovering that ghosts and fairies are real. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/32 "2009-04-19T14:26:40Z")
Someone said that people have opinions on all sorts of things they have never experienced. And they do. Worthless opinions. There is no way of having a useful opinion on something you have not experienced. And parenting is a big one. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/33 "2009-04-19T14:27:40Z")
Well, I wouldn’t go that far. You don’t need to be a guitar player to have the “useful opinion” that Jimmy Page is a far, far better player than I am. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/34 "2009-04-19T14:48:24Z")
Another thing is that on the Dope, we don’t have many parents who are guilty of the sort of flip advice, who apparently have easy children. Doper parents mostly seem to admit they and their children are flawed. And there are a lot of people parenting kids with special challenges. Parents on the Dope seem to be rather reasonable, giving some credit to their kids and letting the kids take the some of the blame for some of the kids own attributes - rather than attributing the entire child to good or bad parenting. But we do have a selection of non-parents who are more than willing to weigh in with their expertise - and seem to have the ‘this should be easy’ attitude - and if it isn’t, there must be something you are doing wrong. I think its because we tend to have a lot of very logical, linear thinkers - who like scientific applications…and you can’t apply a standard process to raising kids. So you see the dismissiveness towards the second, but not very often the dislike of the first, simply because we have more of the second than the first. If you go to a Mommy board, you get a lot more of the flip absolute advice on parenting from other parents who don’t get it because their kids were easy - which is why I don’t tend to frequent Mommy boards. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/35 "2009-04-19T14:48:49Z")
The posts about how every child is different, and what works with one won’t necessarily work with others are spot on. That’s true with parents as well; they need to use what works for _both_ them and their kids. A lot of it comes down to how completely illogical children can be. They don’t think the same way adults do. If you’re childless and giving advice, you probably came up with that advice using logic somewhere along the line (which is where you went wrong). Even as they get older, they tend to be focused on what they’re doing, and possible bad side effects don’t even enter their thoughts. Something’s stuck on the roof? Well I’ll knock it down with this other thing. Never thinking they’ll end up with two (three (four)) things stuck. The appropriate example changes with their age, but the overall theme persists. One other thing is how you can tell kids something over and over and nothing changes. “Don’t chew with your mouth open.” [del]“Oh, OK Dad.” and he never does it again.[/del] I’ve been telling my son this daily to weekly for years. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/36 "2009-04-19T14:55:20Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Another thing is that on the Dope, we don’t have many parents who are guilty of the sort of flip advice, who apparently have easy children. … well, I hate to admit it, but I have one of those easy children which is why you never see my presence in any “my child is having problems with X” threads. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/37 "2009-04-19T14:57:02Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Someone said that people have opinions on all sorts of things they have never experienced. And they do. Worthless opinions. There is no way of having a useful opinion on something you have not experienced. And parenting is a big one. Then–and I ask this with all seriousness–what is a non-parent supposed to do when someone you are friends with gives you daily updates on potty training progress, or spends half an hour bitching about how hard it is to get Johnny to do his homework, or is running through the pros and cons of two different daycare providers as they try to make up their mind? What the point of conversation if the other person isn’t qualified to comment in anyway, if any insight or ideas or anecdotes they might have are “worthless”? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/38 "2009-04-19T14:58:28Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Even as they get older, they tend to be focused on what they’re doing, and possible bad side effects don’t even enter their thoughts. Something’s stuck on the roof? Well I’ll knock it down with this other thing. Never thinking they’ll end up with two (three (four)) things stuck. The appropriate example changes with their age, but the overall theme persists. I have, with my own eyes, seen 18 year-olds do this. With their only shoes, while far from home. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/39 "2009-04-19T15:02:31Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Then–and I ask this with all seriousness–what is a non-parent supposed to do when someone you are friends with gives you daily updates on potty training progress, or spends half an hour bitching about how hard it is to get Johnny to do his homework, or is running through the pros and cons of two different daycare providers as they try to make up their mind? What the point of conversation if the other person isn’t qualified to comment in anyway, if any insight or ideas or anecdotes they might have are “worthless”? As someone without children, I try to go for the “nod-and-smile/make sympathetic noises” option, with occasional polite remarks, and attempts to redirect the conversation to non-child topics. (Some people can’t be redirected.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/40 "2009-04-19T15:03:54Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > You do, but its different, and in fact, its worse. Because there is an innocence about the ‘advice’ from non-parents that is lacking from the ‘advice’ of established parents. The love you feel for a child is different from the love you feel for any other person in your life. I can’t explain it in terms that a non-parent would understand, but it makes your annoyance factor different (not less, not more…different) than how you react to other people doing exactly the same thing. It makes your approach to things different. I don’t say these things to minimize any non-parent’s reaction to various behaviors. It’s just a different perspective that you can’t know until you’ve had kids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532.md?page=3)