# Parents- what is it that the rest of us can't understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532 "2009-04-18T15:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/41 "2009-04-19T17:21:14Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > It’s really a whole host of things that IMHO come down to the way a parent will, to certain extents, relinquish their own ‘human rights’ and identity in order to ensure the happiness and survival of their kids…willingly and without qualms. > > **Many years ago I got into a bit of bother on another messageboard because I made the claim that it is only parents who can experience full selflessness.** I still believe this to be true, because the relationship of a parent and child is not a consciously formed one…it is partly biological, it is also entrenched in the deepest love that only a parent can feel for a child: no other person comes close, especially in the early years. > > Sure, you can love your friends and your extended family, but there comes a time for all individuals when ‘demands’ upon them will be met with reluctance…either overtly or just as a sense of being put upon. With your child, particularly in the early years, you don’t think twice. It’s something only a parent can understand. > > Even when your kids are (supposedly) independent adults and do all sorts of crazy shit that you would NEVER tolerate from a friend or other family member, for some reason those bonds you share with your kid/s allow you to still love them and care for their welfare. > > At least IME and humble opinion. 😉 Yes, I can see why this rubbed people the wrong way. Especially when we hear loving parents talk about not liking their kids very much at certain points, even though they love them. Or parents who count down the days until their children grow up, and said parents are able to resume their independent lives. Or parents who have cut their adult kids off, because they just couldn’t take it anymore. Or people who have gone above and beyond and sacrificed for other loved ones. Then throwing in the biology would mean that an adoptive parent would never be able to form the intense bond with their child, which I completely disagree with. It’s fine if that’s what \*you \*experienced, but sweeping statements like that bug me. Sweeping statements like “my hypothetical child would never” are also annoying, and I understand why they wouldn’t be welcome. Although in some extreme cases they are justified. You don’t have to be a parent to know wandering along without a care in the world, several feet behind your toddler who’s running across a street and through a parking lot is idiotic. [QUOTE=Hari Seldon] Someone said that people have opinions on all sorts of things they have never experienced. And they do. Worthless opinions. There is no way of having a useful opinion on something you have not experienced. And parenting is a big one. [/QUOTE] If we’re going this far, society as a whole would never get anything done. None of us would be qualified to judge almost anything. The points that people have made about easy kids vs. difficult kids would throw almost every parent’s opinion out the window, because they’d only be qualified to speak about their own children. We could only ask the poor how to end poverty, the current judicial system would need to be scrapped, etc. Thanks to everyone who responded. This has been a pretty interesting thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/42 "2009-04-19T17:39:12Z")
Parenting a child is a fundamentally unique experience and relationship that has no analog or frame of reference for those who haven’t done it. It’s not the same as being an uncle or an aunt or a babysitter, and it’s not something that having been a child gives you any insight into. You can’t infer what the experience is like hypothetically or analytically. You have to live it. One thing I think should be remembered is that everyone who is a parent has been a non-parent. We know what it’s like from both sides. We are now keenly aware of our pre-parental ignorance. I thought I had some kind of a grasp on what it would be like. I didn’t know shit. It’s not the ONLY experience like that. I pften use the analogy of serving in combat or the relationships betwen those who serve together. Those relationships are not like any other that you would experience outside of war. The experience of LOSING a child, I think, is one that you could never understand unless it happens to you. Hell, to a slightly lesser degree, just being married (or in a long-term relationship) is probably comparable. How does anyone feel about taking relatonship advice from someone who’s never been in one? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/43 "2009-04-19T18:45:34Z")
With kids, you’re always in teacher mode, either consciously or unconsciously. You have a different reaction because you are responsible, to a degree, for how they turn out. That means you have to let them fail and you have to be patient while they figure out who they are and what their place on the planet is. Also, it’s easy to walk away from someone else who’s not “doing it right.” With kids, you stick with them, no matter what (barring horrifying infractions, of course…and even then sometimes, you can compartmentalize your disappointment). ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/44 "2009-04-19T19:08:01Z")
It’s funny, because reading examples in this thread, I’m thinking “I understand all that now,” so either I’m going to be completely blown away, if I have kids, or various things that I’ve experienced have somewhat switched me over to this mode already, or both. I guess time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/45 "2009-04-19T19:26:34Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > It’s funny, because reading examples in this thread, I’m thinking “I understand all that now,” so either I’m going to be completely blown away, if I have kids, or various things that I’ve experienced have somewhat switched me over to this mode already, or both. I guess time will tell. Not knowing you personally, but… I’m betting on blown away. I knew this stuff too. But I didn’t _know it, know it_, if you know what I mean! 🙂 And I’m still learning it. There are degrees, of course. Some new parents get blown father away than others. Of course, unless you have kids… you just can’t understand… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/46 "2009-04-19T20:29:40Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Then–and I ask this with all seriousness–what is a non-parent supposed to do when someone you are friends with gives you daily updates on potty training progress, or spends half an hour bitching about how hard it is to get Johnny to do his homework, or is running through the pros and cons of two different daycare providers as they try to make up their mind? What the point of conversation if the other person isn’t qualified to comment in anyway, if any insight or ideas or anecdotes they might have are “worthless”? Well, what do you do when ANY person is dumping their problems on you? They’re not looking for advice, they’re looking for sympathy. It’s not just kids, it’s everything - relationships, lack of relationships. People whine and bitch about their jobs. Nobody else cares; I don’t give a flying crap about the job problems of anyone I know, save my wife. And I am sure nobody else cares about my job problems. Yet, we all seem to want to complain about job problems. Nobody expects anyone else to have an answer. They just want sympathy. Now, to be honest, if someone actually spent\*\* half an hour \*\*babbling about a problem with their kid to me, I’d soon find an excuse not to talk to them on the phone anymore. I’m sorry Johnny doesn’t do his homework but holy shit, I have a life. But that’s just an issue of people who don’t understand that their friends might have other things to do. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/47 "2009-04-19T20:33:50Z")
I do agree that non-parents should not be bored with endless anecdotes and updates on other people’s kids unless they spcifically ask. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/48 "2009-04-19T20:36:48Z")
@Omega Glory - even your hypothetical example isn’t that straightforward. Perhaps the toddler was just running ahead on a safe pavement and then suddenly ran out into the road, even though he’s usually good about stopping at the road (some toddlers are). Perhaps what you’re seeing is the one and only time that kid has ever done that. Apart from extreme abuse (well, hopefully), you really can’t say ‘I would never.’ > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > There are degrees, of course. Some new parents get blown\*\* father\*\* away than others. (My emphasis). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/49 "2009-04-19T20:53:05Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > @Omega Glory - even your hypothetical example isn’t that straightforward. Perhaps the toddler was just running ahead on a safe pavement and then suddenly ran out into the road, even though he’s usually good about stopping at the road (some toddlers are). Perhaps what you’re seeing is the one and only time that kid has ever done that. Apart from extreme abuse (well, hopefully), you really can’t say ‘I would never.’ If the lady with the kid (can’t say it was his mother) had made any attempt to call out or run after him, or did anything besides calmly stroll after him as he flew through the street, parking lot and to the store, I’d have been horrified that he might get hurt, but not judged her at all. Children sometimes snatch away and run off. It happens, but if you’re not concerned enough to do anything about it, something is wrong with you. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/50 "2009-04-19T21:20:43Z")
I just realized that last line could be read as if I was saying something was wrong with **Scifisam** , which I’m not. Unless you were the woman in the Rite Aid parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/51 "2009-04-19T22:03:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, what do you do when ANY person is dumping their problems on you? They’re not looking for advice, they’re looking for sympathy. It’s not just kids, it’s everything - relationships, lack of relationships. People whine and bitch about their jobs. Nobody else cares; I don’t give a flying crap about the job problems of anyone I know, save my wife. And I am sure nobody else cares about my job problems. Yet, we all seem to want to complain about job problems. Nobody expects anyone else to have an answer. They just want sympathy. > > Now, to be honest, if someone actually spent\*\* half an hour \*\*babbling about a problem with their kid to me, I’d soon find an excuse not to talk to them on the phone anymore. I’m sorry Johnny doesn’t do his homework but holy shit, I have a life. But that’s just an issue of people who don’t understand that their friends might have other things to do. I’m 32. Most of my peers have kids between 0-12 right now–not so much my close friends as the women I work with. I listen to stories about childrearing all day long at work. I’m not much of one for sympathetic listening in any case, but I guess my way to ‘find an excuse not to talk to them’ is to tell them what I think when they tell me about things–not harshly, always in the form of anecdotes, "My mom used to . . . " or "My 5th aunt’s 3rd kid did that and she . . . ", but I am not built to just sit there and listen and assume I’ve no right to contribute. If people don’t like that sort of response, I assume they’ll quit telling me stories, but so far I’ve never noticed it. But again, I’m not the sympathetic friend, I’m the practical one. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/52 "2009-04-19T22:19:13Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I’m 32. Most of my peers have kids between 0-12 right now–not so much my close friends as the women I work with. I listen to stories about childrearing all day long at work. Thirty minutes long, though? I mean, holy moly. If you’re going to socialize with people who have kids, expect to hear about their kids. People aren’t going to be able to hide what is, for most of them, the most important part of their lives. But, seriously, if they’re spending that much time yapping about it and using you as some sort of Symapthy Hotline, your workplace has a serious problem with laziness, discipline, and a lack of professionalism. > [@](#): > > I’m not much of one for sympathetic listening in any case, but I guess my way to ‘find an excuse not to talk to them’ is to tell them what I think when they tell me about things Hopefully it’s start working. If I was regularly interrupted in the office by people whining about any subject I’d go fricking insane. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/53 "2009-04-19T22:55:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Thirty minutes long, though? I mean, holy moly. > > If you’re going to socialize with people who have kids, expect to hear about their kids. People aren’t going to be able to hide what is, for most of them, the most important part of their lives. But, seriously, if they’re spending that much time yapping about it and using you as some sort of Symapthy Hotline, your workplace has a serious problem with laziness, discipline, and a lack of professionalism. > Hopefully it’s start working. If I was regularly interrupted in the office by people whining about any subject I’d go fricking insane. You misunderstand me: I don’t mind hearing about people’s kids, I just don’t want to sit there non-responsive while they talk, a mute audience that can’t possibly understand. Of course there are things I don’t get about parenting. Doesn’t mean it’s rude to respond with stories or ideas of my own–do you really think it is? And yes, I’ve about trained people not to bother me after 7:30 or before 4, but there seems to be this weird belief that if it’s well before work officially starts, it means I’m not busy! ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/54 "2009-04-20T18:12:16Z")
One thing I’ve noticed about the parent/non-parent dichotomy is that parents think that anecdotes involving young children’s bodily functions are humorous, but non-parents not so much. As a parent, I’ve learned to assess my audience carefully before telling diarrhea/vomiting/potty training stories. Things that will have other parents of toddlers in stitches will leave non-parents looking horrified. That aside, I apparently haven’t been afflicted with as much unwanted advice as some of y’all. Actually, I’ve sought out advice from non-parents on occasion, but generally on specific topics that I though that person would know something about. For example, I worry about my daughter’s eating habits. I’ve discussed this with a childless friend of mine who has eating issues of her own and has given a lot of thought to child development and food. She’s generally had useful and reassuring things to say. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/55 "2009-04-20T18:43:30Z")
Honestly, while this does crop up from time to time in “real life” so to speak, I think it’s mainly an Internet phenomenon. At least for me, anyway. I’ve seen the phenomenon mentioned by the OP, of nonparents being told their opinions are not welcome, plenty of times on message boards. It doesn’t happen to me much in everyday conversation, though. I don’t get advice on my kids from nonparents very often, and if I do, I usually just take it in the spirit it’s given. If **Manda JO** were my co-worker, I wouldn’t have a problem with her offering input or advice, especially if I were the one who initiated the conversation in the first place. (Although, seriously, 30 minutes in the workplace is ridiculous.) ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/56 "2009-04-20T21:02:31Z")
The only thing I can offer to this discussion is an experience. It doesn’t really quantify a specific example, but it made sense to me at the time. A few years back a close friend of mine and his wife were preparing to leave the country to go and pick up their adopted baby. My wife and I already had two children, and had been put off a bit by how they took liberties in (sometimes) reprimanding our children. This couple is really close to my family (kinda brother and sister-like), and it never got out of hand, so we just let it slide. So the day before they were heading to China to pick up their daughter, my friend and I decided to celebrate by working our way through a case of beer, and reflecting over our lives, and some of the choices we’d made. Well, as often happens between close friends and over cases of beer, the conversation turned how we often we used to hang out years ago. Which turned into why our wives and us didn’t hang out as much as we used to. Which turned into talks about how it was harder to do now that we had kids. Which lead to how we were raising our kids. Which lead to how different (better) they were going to raise their new daughter. You see, they’d Read Books. LOTS of books. Been reading books for a year. Daughter’s crying when you put her to bed? He’s not going to comfort her. Daughter’s whining that she wants to be carried? She’s going to have to learn to deal with it, because he and his wife aren’t going to pick her up. They’d _educated_ themselves. They were prepared for any scenario. I told him he was fooling himself; that he couldn’t understand because he didn’t have a kid yet. The discussion got very heated and around 3am, he went home. The next day they flew to China for two weeks to pick up their daughter. Flash-forward about year. We’re sitting on his back porch, after his daughter’s 2nd birthday party, drinking a couple of beers and watching a football game. We’d never talked about that argument we’d had since it happened. He says to me: “Hey Shark, remember that big argument we had that night about a year ago, where I told you my wife and I had everything figured out about how to raise our daughter, and you told me I didn’t understand yet, but I would after having a daughter for a while?” “Yeah, I remember.” “Well…sorry man. You were right.” ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/57 "2009-04-20T23:40:45Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Not knowing you personally, but… I’m betting on blown away. I knew this stuff too. But I didn’t _know it, know it_, if you know what I mean! 🙂 And I’m still learning it. > > There are degrees, of course. Some new parents get blown father away than others. > \*\* > Of course, unless you have kids… you just can’t understand\*\*… 🙂 Well, I guess I have no way to rebut that one.😉 If the board’s around in five or so years, maybe I’ll bump this thread and answer for sure. I think it made sense, and fit with the thread, **Shark Sandwich**. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532/58 "2009-04-21T00:53:21Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > “Well…sorry man. You were right.” Yep… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-is-it-that-the-rest-of-us-cant-understand/493532.md?page=2)