# Parents: What would you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 29, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443 "2018-08-29T00:49:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/41 "2018-08-30T13:31:03Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I bet Kate doesn’t know that and wouldn’t follow it up if she did. Yes, when potentially violating your jurisdiction’s landlord/tenant laws, it’s always a safe bet to assume that the other party is ignorant and wouldn’t _dream_ of causing trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/42 "2018-08-30T14:29:56Z")
If she was my kid, I’d risk it. I’m talking only about this specific situation. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/43 "2018-08-30T14:54:39Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Short of time-travel back 10 years, I got nuthin’. Yeah, that’s my thought too. They set this up long before this girl got out of college. I mean, checking her bank account? I’d have pitched an absolute fit about that at 18, much less 24 and out of school with a full time job. It sounds like they don’t really believe their daughter can handle life on her own, so they’re “helping” her, when in reality she’s just living up to the expectations that they’ve set for her, low as they are. At some point in the past, she learned that this sort of drama gets results, and they never checked it, so that’s how she’s reacting. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/44 "2018-08-30T15:00:07Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > If she was my kid, I’d risk it. I’m talking only about this specific situation. Look - I’m not saying that Sally has no option but to maintain the status quo. I’m saying that it’s worth finding out what the legal options are before she takes steps that might make her position even more difficult, as hard as that is to imagine. For example, in my state - Ohio - it is illegal for a landlord to change the locks. If a landlord changes the locks on a tenant, the tenant can get a court order forcing the landlord to allow them back in. The tenant can also sue the landlord for damages and lawyers fees. [cite](https://www.lascinti.org/wp-content/uploads/HG-03-My-Landlord-Has-Locked-Me-Out-or-Shut-Off-Utilities-rev.-050316.pdf) I don’t know where Sally lives and I don’t know if there’s anything similar that would apply to her situation. What I’m saying is - it would be good to take an hour and figure that out ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/45 "2018-08-30T15:05:33Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Kate will only get sicker the longer she stays there. They have to get her out. Some friends of mine had a similar problem recently and sent their adult child off to a [program like this one](http://sprucemountaininn.com/programs-and-services/). It’s not that exact one but very similar. > > It does seem to be working, and the family has had a chance to do some serious healing as well. Sally has probably been in tantrum prevention mode for the last 20-odd years, and has no idea how to get out of it. She will never be able to think this through with Kate there keeping her desperate, scared, and exhausted. > > They can’t force Kate to go,of course, but they can say it’s this or the street, and mean it this time. Sally is co-dependent; she is addicted to the drama Kate provides. The best way to get through to her is just to remind her that Kate can not get well in the same environment where she got sick. > > This kind of program is very expensive - around $11k per month - but it sure as heck beats a lifetime of hell watching your child’s life be wasted on alternate tantrums and doldrums. I was going to say rehab, but this sort of holistic approach seems much much better - less focuses on the “you smoke weed and therefore are an addict” (and my experience with rehab - through my sister - was it was a great place for addicts to compare notes, decide they weren’t nearly as screwed up as everyone else and therefore were doing fine - and discover new ways to scam Vicodin - I only spent family week there, but I now know where the best place to score drugs in four major cities is (or was ten years ago). I do think they aren’t going to have success outside of residential treatment. She needs to be out of the house for her healing and Sally’s. ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/46 "2018-08-30T15:08:50Z")
I agree that she shouldn’t be living there, not because she’s 24 and has a job, but because she is treating her parents horribly. For everyone saying, “kick her out”, I’d like to know how one goes about that. She’s not like a cat that you can pick up and put on the doorstep and not let back in the house. And then just hope it wanders away for good. They had the opportunity when she slapped her mother. If they would have called the police, they would have most likely taken her out of the house. Then the parents would have been in a better position to keep her out. My kids stayed at home until they were ready to leave. I would never have said, “you’re 18 - get out”. We had good relationships with them. They were great to have around. It wasn’t all unicorns and rainbows. They helped out when ASKED. We (husband and I) hated the coming and going at all hours of the day and night. They made messes and didn’t clean up after themselves at times, but that’s about the only complaints I can think of. Obviously, they didn’t have issues like this girl does. Setting her up in her own apartment and paying for everything isn’t the answer either. She will live there until the money runs out and then want to come home - and they’ll let her. She’s manipulating them big time. They’ve created a monster and I don’t know how to get rid of monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/47 "2018-08-30T15:21:22Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Not that you’re wrong about Sally’s kid, but be aware that if she’s lived there for years then legally she is a tenant and just changing the locks on her might put her parents in legal jeopardy. They might have to get a full eviction. The timeline probably changes if the parents press charges for the assault or get a protection order. > > I’m not sure if Sally is in Canada or the US but before taking drastic measures, your friends should check up on local tenant eviction procedures. It varies drastically from place to place. It’s more complicated than just changing the locks, is all I’m saying. Depends on which state you are in, but most states would say if Kate pays no rent, doesn’t do any chores in exchange for a room, etc., then she is a guest and can be asked to leave at any time. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/48 "2018-08-30T15:28:57Z")
What are the real-life consequences of kicking a kid like this out? What path forward will she take? Anyone gone through it? I knew someone who wasn’t this bad, but she was pretty aimless and eventually got kicked out because she argued a lot with her parents. Getting kicked out didn’t straighten her out to where she could support herself, so she ended up bouncing around people who don’t care too much. She got into drugs, worked sketchy jobs like overnight truck-stop cashier, stayed with friends and sketchy people until they got tired of her, etc. Eventually around 40 or so she mellowed out enough where she is now in a stable job and her own home. I guess the risk with kicking out a kid like this is that she’s likely to fall into a deeper hole. As a parent, that’s a hard thing to be responsible for. It would be different if she was just lazy, but there’s a lot of other stuff going on in her head. It seems like it’ll be a while before she’s stable enough to have a job which will support her. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/49 "2018-08-30T15:52:39Z")
Situations like this really put things in perspective. When my daughter was a teenager I’d arrange to pick her up somewhere and sometimes she’d be ten minutes late. My son went through a period in his teens where he was sometimes moody. During these phases I thought I had it rough. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/50 "2018-08-30T16:05:46Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Short of time-travel back 10 years, I got nuthin’. > [@bump](#): > > Yeah, that’s my thought too. They set this up long before this girl got out of college. No doubt about it, the parents fucked things up a long time ago. And now there’s no simple solution, they can’t fix their daughter, she’s an adult and needs to fix herself. All they can do now is to stop enabling her and pray for the best outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/51 "2018-08-30T16:36:05Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > It is possible that kicking Kate out of the house will be the wakeup call she needs to get herself more together. It is also possible that kicking Kate out of the house will end up with a visit to the morgue in 6 months and the lifelong feeling\* that you are responsible for your child’s death. [Louise](http://www.repeatafterus.com/title.php?i=2639) “… _She died gently forgiving Iris for having killed her_.” ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/52 "2018-08-30T17:51:54Z")
I had a brother like that, except without the physical violence. This was during the 70s and 80s when there was no such thing as counseling/therapy. The situation only ended when my brother died. I guarantee that Sally won’t ever be rid of Kate. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/53 "2018-08-30T18:44:29Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I guess the risk with kicking out a kid like this is that she’s likely to fall into a deeper hole. As a parent, that’s a hard thing to be responsible for. It would be different if she was just lazy, but there’s a lot of other stuff going on in her head. It seems like it’ll be a while before she’s stable enough to have a job which will support her. She does have a full-time job, according to the OP. I don’t recall the whole thread; do we know whether or not is the sort of job that will enable her to support herself on her own? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/54 "2018-08-30T19:06:02Z")
Sally is toxic to Kate. And Kale is equally at risk for dying whether she stays or goes, to my mind. Her behaviour indicates some part of her recognizes this dynamic is killing something important in her. If she stays, she’s just as likely to die from an addiction (which will escalate from weed!), or suicide. If she goes, she could end up homeless, or get in with bad people. (Pretty much a guarantee, I’d bet. She knows her Mom’s buttons just as her Mom knows hers. If that doesn’t work she’ll turn up pregnant, I predict. ) Kate is a serious risk of crashing her life spectacularly. It will be painful to watch. But she’ll only gain her confidence and self respect and fall back in step with her peers, if she manages to actually get her shit together. At 24 she’s got a much better chance than at 30 or 35, with a couple of kids. The world is much more forgiving of young people screwing up than 30 somethings, and older. I expect her friends will be encouraging, to see her move towards more independence. I suspect the OP is recognizing that this may well be a threshold moment for this family. Her parents had 24 yrs to teach her the skills she needs to adult. They did a shitty fucking job, and now that she’s getting more difficult, than they can handle they’d like to turn the train around. Poor Kate is left to sink or swim with no real world experience at adulting, or consequences. Maybe someone Kate respects can sit her down and maybe offer her a path out. Ask if she doesn’t think maybe she’s not happy where she is because she feels she’s missing out. She is missing out! On the sense of accomplishment and confidence that comes from standing on your own. Someone could offer to look for housing with her, even help fund it initially, guiding her to something she can afford. Then watch over her a titch, from not too nearby. Offering cooking lessons (grocery shopping lessons included!), and solutions, that rely on Kate’s actions, when she stumbles. She’ll likely need a lot of encouragement initially. But based on her frustration where she is, if it is her ‘self’ longing to manifest, then she won’t need but a taste and she’ll be off and running. I think many, many of Kate’s issues would calm to manageable, if she could just shake Sally’s toxic sabotaging influence. I have a lot of empathy for anyone forced to watch such family dynamics play out before you, when it’s people you love it’s truly heartbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/55 "2018-08-30T19:18:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > She does have a full-time job, according to the OP. I don’t recall the whole thread; do we know whether or not is the sort of job that will enable her to support herself on her own? She’s making $14-15 an hour at a full-time job – not a fortune, but all she has in her name is the car payment. She should also be paying on a co-signed student loan and car insurance, but these are in the parents’ names and they pay these bills and (kind of, sometimes) collect from her. IMHO, a 24yo can find roomies and make it on her own on this salary; a second job may be necessary, but them’s the breaks and plenty of people do it. Hell, I sold my blood for grocery money when I was working a low salary job and went through a rough stretch at 20yo. I may have unintentionally over-emphasized possible drug use. Sally thinks Kate is a casual pot smoker and drinker; if she is using heavier drugs it’s not readily apparent (she doesn’t miss work/call in sick, etc). Her suicide “attempt,” about six-years-ago, was via a handful of Tylenol – this is the event she holds over her parents’ heads. The explosive anger is not a new thing, Kate has had these episodes since tweenhood and she has never been particularly compliant with prescribed antidepressants. Sally’s other BFF is saying the exact things I am, so I think my suggestions to her are in the ballpark. The three of them are going to a counseling appointment together, I made some of the “contract” suggestions derived from the conversations in this thread. A central issue emerging is that Hubby may not be on the same page as Sally is with having a definitive, dated exit plan – hopefully some family therapy can work this issue out. Otherwise, it’s a biggie problem. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/56 "2018-08-30T19:39:03Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Yes, when potentially violating your jurisdiction’s landlord/tenant laws, it’s always a safe bet to assume that the other party is ignorant and wouldn’t _dream_ of causing trouble. It’s an especially bad idea in this case because the parents have a history of making empty threats. If the daughter knows a bit about the law or is smart enough to google it, she’ll know that the ‘kick her out’ that they’re trying is an illegal bluff and if they actually attempt it that she will get an advantage from it. If you’re going to break a history of unfollowed-through ultimatums, don’t do it by making an empty threat that’s guaranteed to backfire if you have to follow through. (AFAIK she would be a tenant requiring eviction everywhere in the US, so it’s not like this is an obscure problem that you’d only hit in vary rare circumstances or one specific location). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/57 "2018-08-30T19:49:51Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > … (AFAIK she would be a tenant requiring eviction everywhere in the US, so it’s not like this is an obscure problem that you’d only hit in vary rare circumstances or one specific location). Forcing the parents to go through the eviction procedure would seem to only delay the inevitable end result that they kick the daughter out. I wouldn’t call that an “empty threat”. ETA: and I agree with Sunny Daze that Sally sounds like an enabler. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/58 "2018-08-30T20:06:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Forcing the parents to go through the eviction procedure would seem to only delay the inevitable end result that they kick the daughter out. I wouldn’t call that an “empty threat”. If you say “You will be out of here at the end of the month if you do X”, and then six months later you finally sort through the legal issues and pay the daughter penalties and she’s finally out, I would say that your threat about the end of the month was empty. And that’s presuming that the enabler parent sticks through the process of eviction and doesn’t get second thoughts or a moment of weakness and derails the process. I don’t know why someone on a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance would advocate going into a hostile situation with willful ignorance and a plan that’s clearly not going to work. Why on earth would you not check what your landlord-tenant laws are and take them into account when you make threats instead of setting yourself up for dismal failure and extra expense? ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/59 "2018-08-30T21:13:56Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > She does have a full-time job, according to the OP. I don’t recall the whole thread; do we know whether or not is the sort of job that will enable her to support herself on her own? > [@Pantastic](#): > > It’s an especially bad idea in this case because the parents have a history of making empty threats. If the daughter knows a bit about the law or is smart enough to google it, she’ll know that the ‘kick her out’ that they’re trying is an illegal bluff and if they actually attempt it that she will get an advantage from it. If you’re going to break a history of unfollowed-through ultimatums, don’t do it by making an empty threat that’s guaranteed to backfire if you have to follow through. > > (AFAIK she would be a tenant requiring eviction everywhere in the US, so it’s not like this is an obscure problem that you’d only hit in vary rare circumstances or one specific location). I’m 99% sure Kate doesn’t have the knowledge, money, organizational skills, or willpower to go legal on them. HOWEVER, I am going to suggest that Sally check tenant laws – always a good idea to be forewarned and forearmed. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443/60 "2018-08-30T21:19:37Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I’m 99% sure Kate doesn’t have the knowledge, money, organizational skills, or willpower to go legal on them. > HOWEVER, I am going to suggest that Sally check tenant laws – always a good idea to be forewarned and forearmed. Has Kate ever paid Sally rent? (Doesn’t sound like it.) If not, I’d guess no tenant situation exists. They should definitely check with a lawyer, but when we bought a house down the road from you in Pennington our lawyer set things up so that even though we let the owners stay in the house until theirs was ready, there was no tenant relationship. That’s NJ law also, though 30 year old law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-what-would-you-do/820443.md?page=4)