# Parents who name their child just the diminutive/short form of a given name **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382 "2023-12-10T20:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/281 "2023-12-17T02:43:39Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Excuse my ‘Not A Catholic’ brain, but why the need to name your child the same as a random saint? I was raised Catholic, and attended a Catholic grade school. One year in Religion class (I think that’s what it was called) we all had to write an essay about the saint we were “named after”\*. I don’t know what my aforementioned classmate Trudy did. \*I was named after my father and grandfather, but somehow I don’t think that’s who the nuns meant. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/282 "2023-12-17T04:21:41Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > don’t know what my aforementioned classmate Trudy did. Probably wrote about St Gertrude the Great. > **[Saint Gertrude the Great | Franciscan Media](https://www.franciscanmedia.org/saint-of-the-day/saint-gertrude-the-great/)** > > Saint Gertrude, a Benedictine nun, was one of the great mystics of the 13th century. Her form of spirituality was a blend of liturgical and personal prayer rooted in the Scriptures. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/283 "2023-12-17T11:22:54Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > It is probably that the Catholics played such a large part in European history and have so many saints that it is hard to find an English name without an attached saint. There’s even a [St. Elvis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailbe_of_Emly) (anglicization of the Irish name “Ailbe”). > [@mtnmatt](#): > > There doesn’t appear to be a St. Colleen (daughter 2) but Mom might have been quiet about that because it is a diminutive of her name, Colette. On “Colleen”, according to [behindthename.com](http://behindthename.com): “Derived from the Irish word _cailín_ meaning “girl”. It is not commonly used in Ireland itself, but has been used in America since the early 20th century.” That’s probably why there is no saint named this. I do like Colleen, as I like Kathleen. These names remind me of my childhood in the late 80s. > [@doreen](#): > > I don’t know for sure about the “why” - it’s not a rule anymore if it ever really was. The current rule is > > > “Parents, sponsors, and the pastor are to take care that a name foreign to Christian sensibility is not given.” > > And the way I heard the rule ( again , if it really was a rule) was that baptism required a saint’s name but it was just fine if the kid was named Jessica and baptized using her middle name, Anne and if you can do that , I don’t see why you couldn’t have Maggie on the birth certificate and use Margaret for the baptism. But priests and nuns and mothers like to make up their own rules and I’m sure part of the reason was so the child had a “patron saint” . That’s right. Currently, the Catholic Church requires merely that the name not be contrary to Christian sensibility. I think the older rule was something like if someone insisted on baptizing a child with a name that was not a saint’s or religious one, that the priest append another name which _is_. Formally, though, that is not required anymore. That said, I’m sure there are, or have been, many priests who had their own ideas about this and simply insisted that a certain pious custom be followed. Or at least that said customs were common locally. In Quebec, it used to be standard that a boy was given three names: first Joseph (after St. Joseph, Jesus’ earthly father), then his baptismal sponsor’s name, and only then the name by which he was known. Example: Canada’s former Prime Minister [Joseph Jacques] Jean Chretien. In the case of a girl, the first name would always be Marie, after Jesus’ mother. I don’t know if the third name was also expected in the case the parents intended the child to be known by one of the first two names. Another Catholic example from somewhere else: The composer we all know as “Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart” was given the names “Joannes Chrisostomus, Wolfgang, Gottlieb” by his parents. The first one (double-barreled) is because he was born on the feast day of St. John Chrysostom. Wolfgang was also the name of his maternal grandfather, and Gottlieb would have been after his godfather, Joannes Theophilus Pergmayr. Theophilus has the same meaning as Gottlieb in Greek, and in the Latin baptismal register, he is referred to as “Joan̅es Chrysost[omus] Wolfgangus Theophilus”, legitimate son of Leopold Mozart. That all said, Mozart did not use his saint’s name Joannes Chrisostomus in everyday life (the only two sources for it seem to be the above-mentioned baptismal name and a letter which his father wrote when he was born), and in adulthood used French and Italian forms instead of “Gottlieb”, and that name eventually became codified as the Latin “Amadeus”. But to get back to the Catholic (and Orthodox) custom of giving a child one or more saints’ names, it boils down to superstition (from an atheist’s perspective). The names are bestowed in hopes that the saint will give the child protection and I imagine also that the child will grow up to be holy and emulate the saint. And the more saints names, the better. All the more patrons you have. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/284 "2023-12-17T22:23:08Z")
> [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > If he decides in the future that he wants to go by his full name, or shorten it in another way, brilliant. He has that option. What is Ned short for in your case, if I may ask? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/285 "2023-12-17T22:53:29Z")
I recently came across a book meant to help parents prepare very young children for their first unaccompanied plane trip, _Jamie Goes On A Plane_. Although it’s clear in other ways that the book is probably from around 1980, it’s also clear from the fact that Jamie isn’t a girl, and also that his name isn’t Liam, Logan, Jayden, or something else trendy. Or even Jack, which comes in at tenth place in this [2023 list](https://www.today.com/parents/babies/baby-boy-names-rcna11344) of the most popular baby boy names–well above John. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/286 "2023-12-17T22:59:02Z")
But the book probably dates from the era where someone whose passport said “James” could probably still get on a plane with a ticket saying “Jamie.” ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/287 "2023-12-17T23:33:43Z")
Not that you needed a passport at all, actually, unless you were traveling to another country. As far as the kid in the book is concerned, or any male who goes by Jamie, I naturally assume his legal name is James. Also, airlines don’t necessarily get names exactly correct on passenger lists and boarding passes. My last name has a space, and I was surprised to discover that UAL’s system wouldn’t accept it, and that was only four and five years ago. So on the boarding passes it appeared without the space. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/288 "2023-12-18T00:31:46Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > What is Ned short for in your case, if I may ask? I’m not the guy with the kid named Ned, but I’ll take **Nebuchadnezzar** for $200, Alex. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/289 "2023-12-18T00:37:01Z")
_Ned_ is diminutive of the Ed names. Edgar, Edward or Edmond. According to Google. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/290 "2023-12-18T01:51:58Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > _Ned_ is diminutive of the Ed names. Edgar, Edward or Edmond. According to Google They’re asking the OP the full name of _the OP’s_ son, not what the name _could_ be short for. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/291 "2023-12-18T01:54:07Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Although it’s clear in other ways that the book is probably from around 1980, it’s also clear from the fact that Jamie isn’t a girl, Jaime Sommers would like a word with you (variant spelling). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/292 "2023-12-18T02:23:02Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > _Ned_ is diminutive of the Ed names. Edgar, Edward or Edmond. According to Google. Or, as I mentioned earlier, [Nedward](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Flanders). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/293 "2023-12-18T02:33:54Z")
I suspected as much, but I was wondering whether it was short for anything else, for example Theodore (via “Ted”) After all, we do have the whole Richard/Dick and Robert/Bob situations. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/294 "2023-12-18T03:01:03Z")
Could be Edward Kennedy was called _Teddy_. The names are all mixed up. ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/295 "2023-12-18T11:23:39Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > What is Ned short for in your case, if I may ask? Edgar. After Edgar Rice Burroughs. ☺ > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m not the guy with the kid named Ned, but I’ll take **Nebuchadnezzar** for $200, Alex. 😁 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/296 "2023-12-18T12:02:41Z")
Guess I’ve kind of let this thread get away from me! I’m actually surprised that my minor annoyance has generated so much debate. Of course, I’m not that fussed that people might call their kids just Alex or Pete. I guess, in the case of Alex at least, a kids can still choose to go by Al or Lex. And I really have no problem at all, strangely, with people giving their children made up names or originally non-English names. That shows imagination and flair. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > _Ned_ is diminutive of the Ed names. Edgar, Edward or Edmond. According to Google. Yep. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Could be Edward Kennedy was called _Teddy_. > The names are all mixed up. Yes, and this is the beauty and flexibility of English. There’s often multiple names which can have the same diminutive/short form. So why not pick one you like? Giving just the short form feels overly prescriptive to me which, conversely, is why I don’t think policing names is a good idea 😁. OB ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/297 "2023-12-18T13:17:24Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Also, airlines don’t necessarily get names exactly correct on passenger lists and boarding passes. Hah! Years ago (but post 9/11) I was flying for a work related function. An employee did the scheduling. My middle name is Stephen. My employee spelled it Steven. At the airport I was pulled aside and questioned about the difference. I chuckled, thinking the TSA dude was kidding. My attitude pissed him off and I ended up just barely making my (domestic) flight. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/298 "2023-12-18T13:42:29Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > My last name has a space, and I was surprised to discover that UAL’s system wouldn’t accept it, and that was only four and five years ago. So on the boarding passes it appeared without the space. That’s what kills me - boarding passes often don’t allow a space between a first name and a middle initial or name. And TSA and everyone else can deal with it, because that’s just what the ticketing system does. But if my middle name/initial is on the ticket but not my ID or vice versa or my ticket says Bob but my ID says Robert ( or vice versa) - that’s going to depend on the mood of the TSA agent I encounter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382.md?page=14)