# Parents who name their child just the diminutive/short form of a given name **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382 "2023-12-10T20:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/161 "2023-12-12T01:33:13Z")
What is a legit name? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/162 "2023-12-12T01:40:25Z")
An example (a few years old now) of what happens when bureaucrats enforce these laws. TLDR: France requires established French names. Breton is a regional minority language spoken in France, but not a French language; their equivalent of François is Fañch. The name was originally allowed to go ahead without the tilde, but several years later the correct spelling won in court. What makes it relevant is the state’s (ostensible) interest in promoting national unity, which sometimes turns out to suppress the minorities. Similarly, we don’t let people have names that are too long,\* which is a problem for some indigenous (and Thai) names, as I understand it. > **[French couple can keep tilde in son's name after court battle](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/17/french-couple-can-keep-tilde-in-sons-name-after-court-battle)** > > The row over Fañch or Fanch was settled after the parents’ two-year tussle with officials - I don’t know that this is a rule anywhere, but computers will often truncate any name that’s longer than so many characters. Names that are longer get cut off. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/163 "2023-12-12T01:44:12Z")
[Vancouver man questions Canada's identification inconsistencies | CityNews Vancouver](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2021/07/08/vancouver-bc-names-identification/) is mostly about long surnames, but it mentions the character limit for given names. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/164 "2023-12-12T01:46:21Z")
My long long name fills every space on my birth certificate. No spaces between. My Daddy often said one more letter and I’d have been a nobody. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/165 "2023-12-12T01:52:49Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > What is a legit name? Excellent question, because very often names that are initially rejected are later approved, and the rules themselves are often updated and/or reconsidered; there is no pretense that they are not subjective or that the judgement of what is considered “tradition” is not subjective. The basic rules are that the name should not be embarrassing, and that it should be compatible with Icelandic grammar. However, foreign names are (today) OK too. Not being on the committee in question, not sure how they determine which orthographic variants (or adaptations into Icelandic orthography) are legitimate, but here is a snapshot of some actual decisions: [https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Nordic\_Names\_Blog\_-\_New\_Icelandic\_Names\_2023-01](https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Nordic_Names_Blog_-_New_Icelandic_Names_2023-01) NB the decision that “Kenny” is a real name, not just Kenneth. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/166 "2023-12-12T02:28:14Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I know a “Mindy” named for Mork’s friend in the sitcom. > Apparently, it wasn’t a name before. Like Wendy and Peter Pan. Cite? Wikipedia entry lists a number of people named Mindy who pre-date Mork & Mindy, including Mindy Cohn (Facts of Life) born in 1966. IIRC my friend Melinda went by Mindy in kindergarten, which also preceded Mork & Mindy. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/167 "2023-12-12T02:42:08Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I know a “Mindy” named for Mork’s friend in the sitcom. > Apparently, it wasn’t a name before. Like Wendy and Peter Pan. I’ve known a Mindy since 1960. She was born in 1956. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/168 "2023-12-12T03:03:20Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I’ve known a Mindy since 1960. She was born in 1956 But what was her name until 1978? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/169 "2023-12-12T03:35:51Z")
Mindy was used as book titles before the tv show. _Mindy_, by Louise Dickinson Rich, 1959 _Mindy_, by Dorothy Hamilton, 1973 _Mindy_, by Vicky Shiefman, 1974 And Google Books finds lots of women authors who were named Mindy and obviously were born before the show started. No telling how many of them used a shortened version of a name given to them for “versatility” and how many were actually named Mindy at birth. In newspapers I can find the name used as far back as 1902, and commonly during the 1910s. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/170 "2023-12-12T07:31:24Z")
A coworker was named Zack. We were talking about various names one day and he mentioned that when his parents went to register his name the clerk would not enter it because it was not a Christian name. This was in 1950s Alabama or Georgia. They ended up naming him Alton Zachary and only ever called him Zack. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/171 "2023-12-12T07:54:42Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > That is the ostensible purpose of the Icelandic naming committee: you can name your child whatever you want (within reason), but it has to be a “real” name. If it is not already on the approved list, you can petition that it be added (which often actually succeeds if you can prove it’s a legit name). The practice in the Czech Republic as well, where I live now. You must use a name that has been used before. Also, you may not give a boy a girl’s name or a girl a boy’s name (androgynous names do exist in Czech and are sometimes bestowed, but there are far fewer of these than in English. Most Czechs have either the Czech verson of a saint’s name, or an old-fashioned Slavic name, both of which are normally gendered. They are practically never surname-derived like “Lindsay” or “Taylor” in English). Czech law actually disallows giving diminutives as full names. This would be because in Czech, this would really sound weird to a lot of people: it’s absolutely common practice in this country to be given the full name and to be referred to by a diminutive by people around you with whom you are on a first-name basis. So for example, many boys are called Jan = John. Almost everyone who uses their first name will call them “Honza” = the Czech equivalent of “Jack”, or sometimes something else like “Jenda”, especially if they are chummy with him. People with whom Jan is more intimate (parents, girlfriend) might also call him “Jeník”, a softer diminutive. But naming him “Honza” legally would be seen as weird (though it might just be allowed as there are, or historically have been, men who have been legally named that). Foreign names are legal - it doesn’t have to be a name on the Czech name calendar. So you can name your son John, or Jean, or Giovanni, or whatever. As long as you respect the conventions of the input language and don’t make any innovations. There is actually a guidebook published for this purpose called “How will your child be named?”, which is used by the public registrar as a guide. In it there are over 11000 names listed. If the name chosen is on the list, then no problem. The registrar will accepted. If not, you need to provide documentation that the name has been used before. I should mention that these rules not only apply to naming one’s child. They also apply if you want to change your name. Czech law doesn’t allow an adult to invent a completely new name for themselves. Think of that what you will, I will decline to express an opinion on that point here. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/172 "2023-12-12T08:21:17Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > A coworker was named Zack. We were talking about various names one day and he mentioned that when his parents went to register his name the clerk would not enter it because it was not a Christian name. This was in 1950s Alabama or Georgia. They ended up naming him Alton Zachary and only ever called him Zack. Huh? If I remember my childhood Bible study at Sunday School correctly, Zacharias was the father of John the Baptist. Zack is, of course, a diminuitive of Zacharias and Zachary; but to claim that it is not a Christian name makes no sense. Or was the clerk just refusing to register a diminuitive, in the sense that Nick is a diminuitive of Nicholas? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/173 "2023-12-12T11:49:02Z")
Right; the short (and traditional) answer in Iceland is that a “legit name” is a name that has been used before. Nevertheless, this requirement seems to have been relaxed somewhat, as the January 2023 link I gave includes a couple of supposedly original names, not only spelling variations: Sólbráð (“sun-thaw”) and Múr (“brick wall”), both approved. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/174 "2023-12-12T13:02:47Z")
A friend’s father was given a “normal” “legit” name at birth. He was fine with it for awhile, then one day he wasn’t. His name was Adolph. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/175 "2023-12-12T13:19:47Z")
Nothing’s wrong with them- I know men named all three. What I don’t understand is why parents would deliberately choose Bob over Robert, Dave over David, or Dan over Daniel. Seems to me the way to go would be to use Robert, David, and Daniel, and just call the kids Bob, Dave, and Dan. That way, if in later life, they don’t want to be called Bob, they can just revert to their full name. And I know people can go in reverse, but I can’t say that in 51 years of life, I’ve _ever_ known anyone who’s done that. I would imagine it doesn’t feel right, because _it’s not their name_. I mean, if you’re named Dave, you’re not by default a David. You’re a Dave. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/176 "2023-12-12T13:32:27Z")
“Dan” is not short for “Daniel”. Maybe it could be, but it is a legit name in Hebrew. And, well, Danish 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apodder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apodder/32/17727_2.png) [@Apodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apodder)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/177 "2023-12-12T13:50:01Z")
I would argue that ALL names are made-up. Someone somewhere in the mists of time made up every name. Just a quibble that I have to remind myself of whenever I hear some bizarre (to my ear) name and think, come on, you just made that up… 😏 ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/178 "2023-12-12T14:32:10Z")
My grandmother named my uncle “Gene” after Gene Autry. I never really gave it any thought…seemed normal to me. Later in life, my uncle would frequently complain that people assumed his name was actually “Eugene.” In fact, when he received his high school diploma, the name beautifully lettered on it was “Eugene.” They had tried to be formal and use his “correct and full” name, in spite of the fact that all his paperwork and school registrations listed him properly as “Gene.” Of course, back in those days, you just took your diploma and shut up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/179 "2023-12-12T14:33:17Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > No, they’re not all worse. The problem is that it’s not possible to force parents to consider the child’s interests without someone else inserting other interests. Even such mild laws like California’s (only letters, hyphens, and apostrophes) prevent names like María, François, and Jörg. The state has decided that ease of record-keeping is more important than individual rights. Stricter naming laws found in Europe are imperialism–the favored culture is preferred and any others are second class. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > Any fertile person who is capable of carnally knowing a fertile person of the opposite biological sex can bring a child into the world, even a whack job like, say, Donald Trump, or Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel. The opprobrium expressed in that sentence captures it perfectly–others don’t deserve a particular right because they are immoral or ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382/180 "2023-12-12T14:36:40Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Of course, back in those days, you just took your diploma and shut up about it. In school my brother Larry had a teacher who insisted his name was Lawrence. My mom had to bring his birth certificate and meet with the teacher _and_ the principal. The principal acceded, the teacher remained pissed off about the situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parents-who-name-their-child-just-the-diminutive-short-form-of-a-given-name/994382.md?page=10)