# Paris Climate Conference may be breaking up
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [December 11, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206 "2015-12-11T23:37:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/1 "2015-12-11T23:37:20Z")
The conference in Paris was, officially, [supposed to end](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Nations_Climate_Change_Conference) Friday. A final draft accord was supposed to be produced by 6 AM Friday morning, Paris time. It’s well past that time, and nobody seems to be reporting on the existence of a true final draft. Earlier drafts have appeared throughout the week, with sections still in dispute appearing in brackets.
Having surfed to top news sources like CNN and Washington Post, I saw at the moment nothing on their front pages about the topic. Elsewhere I’m finding things like [this](http://www.thegwpf.com/us-threatens-to-walk-out-if-financial-obligations-made-legally-binding/) and [this](https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/11/poor-countries-demand-35-trillion-in-cli), both saying that the deal may be on the rocks. According to them, John Kerry, who represents the USA, is not a happy camper and has been threatening to walk out.
The issue is finance. All drafts agree that developed (i.e. rich) countries will pay a lot of money to developing (i.e. poor) countries. But there seem to be some disputes. First of all, how much money? The developed countries are offering $100 billion per years starting in 2020, growing after that. The developed countries seem to have larger figures in mind. “The Times (London) is reporting that poor country negotiators have demanded behind closed doors that rich country governments hand over $3.5 trillion in climate finance, or they will refuse to accept the Paris accord.” It’s unclear whether they’re demanding that $3.5 trillion would be over one year or a longer period, but either way, they’re demanding a ton of money.
Second question, will the handover of money be legally binding? What would that even mean, given that there’s no international organization capable of enforcing such a thing? Anyway, the developing countries seem to like legally binding. Kerry isn’t a fan.
Third, what counts as paying money? The developed countries want private investment, loans, and so forth to count as part of the money they pay. If this is done, such things would account for a significant portion of the $100 billion figure already. Developing countries want to be absolutely sure that whatever figure is agreed upon, is paid out on top of any amount of money already coming to them from developed countries.
Negotiations seem to be continuing past the deadline.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/2 "2015-12-12T00:28:55Z")
Not what I see, and as I pointed before I was not expecting much like **The Bad Astronomer** , but this does not look to me like a breakup:
> **[COP21: Final push for climate deal amid 'optimism'](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35067473)**
>
> Negotiators at the Paris climate summit aim to wrap up a global agreement on Saturday with the French hosts "optimistic" of a deal.
> [@](#):
>
> Getting shorter
>
> On Thursday, France presented the latest draft version. At 27 pages long, it was considerably shorter than previous versions.
>
> It says that temperature rise must be kept “well below 2C above pre-industrial levels and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5C”.
>
> The number of square brackets, indicating significant disagreement, had been reduced to around 50, a major improvement on Saturday when they ran to more than 900.
> [@](#):
>
> Consensus needed
>
> Analysts say a delay in the Paris climate talks is not surprising, given that negotiators are trying for a deal that will lead to long-term changes in the global economy.
>
> “This needs consensus,” said Michael Jacobs, an economist with the New Climate Economy project. “There’s a lot of negotiating to do.”
>
> Meanwhile, Brazil has announced it has joined the “high ambition coalition” - which is a group of developed and developing countries jointly pushing for an ambitious accord in Paris to curb global warming.
>
> Countries in this newly-formed coalition, which include the US, want a tough overall goal, mentioning a temperature-rise limit of 1.5C in the agreement text, and a strict system for assessing whether countries stick to - and increase - their pledges.
> [@](#):
>
> Negotiators at the Paris summit aim to wrap up a global agreement to curb climate change on Saturday - a day later than expected.
>
> “We are nearly there. I’m optimistic,” said French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, who is chairing the summit.
>
> Efforts to forge a deal faltered on Friday, forcing the talks to overrun.
>
> UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said the negotiations were the “most complicated, most difficult, but, most important for humanity”.
>
> Mr Fabius told reporters in Paris that he would present a new version of the draft text on Saturday morning at 0800 GMT, which he was “sure” would be approved and “a big step forward for humanity as a whole”.
>
> “We are almost at the end of the road and I am optimistic,” he added.
BTW the cites you used after Wikipedia are a [denier site](http://www.desmogblog.com/global-warming-policy-foundation) and an skeptical one. Oh well, those deniers and skeptics will always have Paris.
> **[ &n...](https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2015/12/mark-morano-will-always-have-paris-to.html)**
>
> The Climate Wars :
> Having known sin at Hiroshima, science was bound to run into adverising sooner or later
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### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/3 "2015-12-12T00:34:18Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#):
>
> Second question, will the handover of money be legally binding? What would that even mean, given that there’s no international organization capable of enforcing such a thing?
No enforcement is needed. Simply, if either side reneges, the other won’t follow through on their end. And everybody loses.
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### Author:  [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/4 "2015-12-12T18:34:38Z")
[You have my deepest sympathies.](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/optimism-in-paris-as-final-draft-of-global-climate-deal-tabled/article27739122/)
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/5 "2015-12-12T22:06:43Z")
> **[COP21 climate change summit reaches deal in Paris](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35084374?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central)**
>
> A landmark agreement designed to limit global temperature rise to less than 2C (3.6F) is adopted by nearly 200 nations at a UN climate summit in Paris.
World leaders of almost 200 hundred countries have agreed to the deal. And among the attendees clapping in the front to the leaders of the accord was Al Gore.
Much to the chagrin of all those denier organizations, “not from a house of lords” Christoffer Monkton, “My heath island effect was not important” Anthony Watts, “Former pusher for swift boaters” Mark (Moran) Morano and deniers from the Heartland Institute or the GWPF were not in the conference room to be a part of doing the right thing.
They were very busy in Paris being ignored by the whole world.
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### Author:  [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/6 "2015-12-12T23:41:46Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/world/europe/climate-change-accord-paris.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/world/europe/climate-change-accord-paris.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)
> [@The New York Times](#):
>
> As a result, all language on the reduction of carbon emissions is essentially voluntary. The deal assigns no concrete reduction targets to any country. Instead, each government has crafted a plan to lower emissions at home based on the country’s domestic politics and economy.
And these people are all patting themselves on the back. This is a joke.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/7 "2015-12-13T00:02:42Z")
> [@Absolute](#):
>
> And these people are all patting themselves on the back. This is a joke.
Not according to this:
[Has history been made at COP21?](http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35085758)
There could have been no agreement. Instead, 196 countries agreed to a set of standards guided by the IPCC to limit temperature rise to 2°C and to “strive for” a limit of 1.5°C. There are now a set of benchmarks that all the nations of the world have agreed to by which success/failure can be measured and peer pressure applied. It’s a worthy successor to Kyoto because it now includes China and India as well as the Middle Eastern oil producers. It’s not the be-all and end-all of agreements, but it looks to me like a hell of a good start.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/8 "2015-12-13T00:16:29Z")
> [@Absolute](#):
>
> [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/world/europe/climate-change-accord-paris.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/world/europe/climate-change-accord-paris.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)
>
> And these people are all patting themselves on the back. This is a joke.
IMHO if one takes the accord alone I would agree with you, but as Bill Gates and many others showed most business are aware of the issue and are committed to accelerate and help with the change. What I pointed many times before was the truth: The change that is needed will take the efforts of all nations and businesses.
Now, we have to deal with the weakest link, that is the Republican congress.
I can see that Ted Cruz and many others have decided to live in infamy for all time.
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### Author:  [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/9 "2015-12-13T23:14:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> IMHO if one takes the accord alone I would agree with you, but as Bill Gates and many others showed most business are aware of the issue and are committed to accelerate and help with the change. What I pointed many times before was the truth: The change that is needed will take the efforts of all nations and businesses.
>
> Now, we have to deal with the weakest link, that is the Republican congress.
>
> I can see that Ted Cruz and many others have decided to live in infamy for all time.
The Pentagon is aware as well.
> **[Pentagon Report Concludes That Climate Change Is A US Military Problem](http://www.techtimes.com/articles/73339/20150731/pentagon-report-concludes-that-climate-change-is-a-us-military-problem.htm)**
>
> A study conducted by the U.S. Department of Defense has found that the impact of climate change is not limited to the environment, but it also affects the peace and stability in different countries.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-climate-conference-may-be-breaking-up/740206/10 "2016-09-03T15:56:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> China and the United States agreed on Saturday to work towards reducing carbon emissions and ratify the Paris Agreement, making it much more likely that the Paris Agreement will go into effect this year. China’s President Xi Jinping and US President Barack Obama, the leaders of two nations which so often fail to see eye on eye, agreed on Saturday to work towards implementing the Paris Agreement on climate change.
>
> Together, China and the United States produce 38 percent of the world’s carbon dioxide emissions. Saturday’s declaration of cooperation on climate goals is a signal to the world that these nations are willing to do what it takes to address climate change.
> **[China-US agree to ratify climate change pact: Why that's a big deal](https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2016/0903/China-US-agree-to-ratify-climate-change-pact-Why-that-s-a-big-deal)**
>
> China and the United States agreed on Saturday to work towards reducing carbon emissions and ratify the Paris Agreement, making it much more likely that the Paris Agreement will go into effect this year.