# Paris goes free! WTF?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120 "2007-06-07T14:44:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/301 "2007-06-09T13:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] Which thread? There’s three of them that are 3+ pages. And that’s just CS. [/QUOTE] The only one I know of is “Paris Hilton Out of Jail After Three Days?” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/302 "2007-06-09T13:21:51Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Bless us, **Evil Captor** , for we have sinned. [/quote] I’m not here to bless you. Au contraire. > [@](#): > > Seriously, though… the thought of Paris all chained up, trapped behind bars, helpless… that doesn’t do anything for you? I loves me some women behind bars movies, but I try to distinguish between them and, you know, reality. Sure, it does something for me, but I don’t believe anyone should have to go through such experiences for my entertainment in real life. ---
**Author:** ![katie1341](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@katie1341](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katie1341)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/303 "2007-06-09T13:34:13Z")
I’m coming into this a little late, but I have to comment on the notion that Paris is getting treated more harshly than others in her situation would be. I have been a criminal defense attorney for 20 years, and I have seen many, many people get similar sentences for similar offenses. Driving on a suspended license is a crime. She committed a new crime while on probation. I live in a college town, so it’s possible that the judges here are a little harsher than a judge in LA would be when it comes to DUIs. In my jurisdiction, most people with a probation violation get locked up without bond until their hearing dates, and spend as much as 30 days in jail before they’ve even had a hearing. ``` My judges (I'm in front of the same 3 all of the time) also tend to punish people more harshly if their violation is a complete disregard for the terms of the probation- like driving after your license has been suspended and you've already been let off once with a warning- rather than something like getting behind on paying your fine because of unexpected medical expenses. The attitude of the probationer often has big impact on their sentence, and that certainly appears to be the case with Ms. Hilton. I haven't seen any of the experts' comments, but I'd be interested to know how many DUI probation revocations any of them have handled. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/304 "2007-06-09T14:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] Those previous posts cites consisted of “I saw it on tv” and “Turn on your tv.” Funny how that flies now, but if I were to say that I saw the evidence of Iraqi WMD on tv a few years back, I would’ve been laughed off the boards. How quickly the standards of evidence have fallen. :rolleyes: [/quote] But the ones who are claiming that PH got any preferrential treatment are the ones with the burden of proof. Pointing out that none of the TV experts seems to agree with that sentiment is not so much a cite as a _request_ for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/305 "2007-06-09T14:40:52Z")
And there you have it. We have **wring** , who’s been laboring for decades in the bowels of the justice system, dealing with all the shit that comes down, telling us that Paris isn’t being oppressed by The Man. Now we have the perspective from farther up the food chain of the system saying the same thing. Can we please stop relying on the scandalized blitherings of TV attention whore talking heads now? **Dio** , the burden of proof for message board analysis is not beyond a reasonable doubt; it’s preponderance of the evidence. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/306 "2007-06-09T14:46:20Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] And there you have it. We have **wring** , who’s been laboring for decades in the bowels of the justice system, dealing with all the shit that comes down, telling us that Paris isn’t being oppressed by The Man. Now we have the perspective from farther up the food chain of the system saying the same thing. Can we please stop relying on the scandalized blitherings of TV attention whore talking heads now? **Dio** , the burden of proof for message board analysis is not beyond a reasonable doubt; it’s preponderance of the evidence. 😛 [/QUOTE] Sorry but the personal assurances of some anonymous message board posters don’t mean shit to me. Just because a lot of people desperately WANT to believe that Paris Hilton is getting treated better than anybody else doesn’t mean she is. The envy and jealousy (and misogyny) which lies at the root of the hatred for this woman is so transparent it’s almost comic. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/307 "2007-06-09T14:47:10Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The other stuff’s irrelevant since nobody else wuld be in jail in the first place. [/quote] Well, I’ve got [cites](http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/criminal_law/dui/probation.html) that [disagree](http://www.lacriminaldefenseattorney.com/ProbationParoleViolations.html) . Even these [guys](http://www.defensehelp.com/show_category.asp?category_ID=2) use ‘may’ a lot and their working against the DA. All the folks listed [here](http://www.starhq.com/html/news/allarticles.asp?cat=sessionscourt) got jail time for violating probation and first time DUI offenders event got a few days in jail. Plus my best friend is a lawyer in California and disagrees with you and your TV lawyers. You know, like all the lawyers here on the Dope do. When was the last time Geraldo defended someone for a DUI related crime? > [@](#): > > Not any more. Not since I saw that she has butt herpes [shudder]. You didn’t see that coming? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/308 "2007-06-09T15:11:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Sorry but the personal assurances of some anonymous message board posters don’t mean shit to me. [/QUOTE] And the public yammering of talking heads paid to sensationalize the news does mean shit to you? Come on, **Dio** , you can dismiss any post on these boards with that dubious logic to avoid supporting your position. Ain’t gonna wash this time. Besides, it is not their “personal assurance”, it is their professional experience. If you don’t have any confidence in any of the posters here, why do you keep coming back? Shouldn’t we treat your posts the same way? You have portrayed yourself as somewhat of a Biblical scholar; could I dismiss your posts on that subject by just waving them off as “personal assurances of some anonymous message board poster”? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/309 "2007-06-09T15:45:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] But the ones who are claiming that PH got any preferrential treatment are the ones with the burden of proof. Pointing out that none of the TV experts seems to agree with that sentiment is not so much a cite as a _request_ for a cite. [/QUOTE] There goes \*\*Dio \*\*with his no habla bit again. So far we have had two lawyers with over 50 years experience tell you this is not out of line, and two other posters tell you they have seen cow-orkers get similar treatment, and you still have your fingers stuck in your ears going LA-LA-LA I can’t hear you cite LA-LA-LA. So we can all stop wasting time on this shit, please come right out and tell us exactly what the fuck you will accept as a cite. Oh and don’t forget, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, your talking heads will need to match that same level. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/310 "2007-06-09T16:19:11Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The envy and jealousy (and misogyny) which lies at the root of the hatred for this woman is so transparent it’s almost comic. [/QUOTE] I don’t see misogyny. Hilton’s\* behavior \* has brought on a lot of the hostility. Had a young male celebrity who’d displayed similarly obnoxious behavior been caught up in similar circumstances, I think we’d have seen the same reaction from the public. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/311 "2007-06-09T16:43:11Z")
Hatred and disgust of Ms. Hilton? Yes. Hatred and disgust for a **drunk driver?** More. My uncle was almost killed by a drunk driver who crossed the center line in his pickup truck, ramming my uncle’s 1960 VW beetle head-on. My uncle spent days in the ICU with broken ribs, a broken arm, a lacerated liver, a broken nose, and probably other injuries I can’t recall at the moment. Personally, I think it’s disgusting that **anybody** gets out of jail until their sentence is completed. I don’t understand why we make up sentencing rules if we blatantly disregard them when they’re inconvenient. I think it’s disgusting that the sheriff’s office feels the need to hold a press conference announcing a reduction of an inmate’s sentence before they have even served a day. How many other inmates are released to TV coverage? The reason we have a system of laws is so that we have a uniform and codified way to dispense justice on an even-handed basis. Paris Hilton is one egregious example of a person who commits a crime with a known penalty and who walks away virtually unscathed. Her fame cuts her both ways: if she commits a crime in public, the whole world is watching; but her future is virtually immune to the repercussions of it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/312 "2007-06-09T16:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=PunditLisa] I don’t see misogyny. Hilton’s\* behavior \* has brought on a lot of the hostility. Had a young male celebrity who’d displayed similarly obnoxious behavior been caught up in similar circumstances, I think we’d have seen the same reaction from the public. [/QUOTE] Hey, they’re just working with what they’ve got. Paris’s apologists are dealt a real blow by her being the liliest of lily-white, so the only card left to pull is the “misogyny” card. Bit embarrassing, really, but I guess when you’re floundering, you grasp whatever straws are left. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/313 "2007-06-09T17:08:08Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Personally, I think it’s disgusting that **anybody** gets out of jail until their sentence is completed. I don’t understand why we make up sentencing rules if we blatantly disregard them when they’re inconvenient. [/QUOTE] Because it is cheaper. We voters have decided that building enough jails and prisons to house every convict for the full term of their sentence is too expensive. If you agree that we need to raise your taxes to build more prisons, please contact your representatives. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/314 "2007-06-09T17:19:01Z")
Either that, or we need to officially revise the sentence to a lesser amount. As we can see here, the _de facto_ sentence is 50% of the official amount even before the inmate arrives, so why do we bother with the official sentence at all if nobody ever serves that duration? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/315 "2007-06-09T17:23:05Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Either that, or we need to officially revise the sentence to a lesser amount. As we can see here, the _de facto_ sentence is 50% of the official amount even before the inmate arrives, so why do we bother with the official sentence at all if nobody ever serves that duration? [/QUOTE] Because the “normal” percentage of time served changes from time to time. I’m pretty sure that 10 or so years ago the time-off for good behavior was less than it is now, due mainly to lack of space in the jails. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/316 "2007-06-09T17:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] She’ll get the automatic good time, presumably. [/QUOTE] She’s Paris Hilton. That kind of goes without saying, right? 😉 Mixed messages on the news. The Sheriff, bless his angry confused emasculated little heart, said " 23 days is what she will spend in my jail". ( words to that effect, but he said 23, not 45 ). I must say, screaming " Mooommmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy " and collapsing is certainly an interesting approach. If they keep her in Isolation for 23 days ( I know, 23 minus 5 = 18 ), will she mentally snap and be permanently damaged? Doubtful. Prisoners confined to Eastern State Pennitentiary in Philadelphia went **DECADES** without being face to face with another living human being. The entire prison was designed to insure that all prisoners were totally isolated all the time. Period. I’d say she’s gotten off remarkably easy for a 26 year old adult woman whose defense was, " my publcist reads my mail ". Please. Jesus wept. ( and, he likely read his own mail too. ) ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/317 "2007-06-09T17:34:28Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] How do you know that? There may be lurkers … in fact, there are certainly MANY lurkers reading this thread … who are reading it and thinking, "Evil Captor has a point. [/QUOTE] Mostly, what we’re thinking is “Evil Faptor let his membership lapse, but we just \*knew \*that a thread about an attractive chick in prison would bring that fucking one-trick-pony back.” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/318 "2007-06-09T17:38:15Z")
[QUOTE=Uvula Donor] Mostly, what we’re thinking is “Evil Faptor let his membership lapse, but we just \*knew \*that a thread about an attractive chick in prison would bring that fucking one-trick-pony back.” [/QUOTE] No, he’s right… he does have a point. Unfortunately anything under 59 points is considered failing. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/319 "2007-06-09T17:51:28Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Because the “normal” percentage of time served changes from time to time. [/QUOTE] But if we still think that the full, official sentence is the right amount, then people in this thread can stop calling it “extra punishment,” one would hope. That’s the official sentence. Serving the full term should be _expected_, but apparently from this thread many people see the full term as cruel and unusual somehow. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120/320 "2007-06-09T20:03:13Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] Those previous posts cites consisted of “I saw it on tv” and “Turn on your tv.” Funny how that flies now, but if I were to say that I saw the evidence of Iraqi WMD on tv a few years back, I would’ve been laughed off the boards. How quickly the standards of evidence have fallen. :rolleyes: [/quote] Sweetie, the story just broke. They don’t post transcripts of television commentaries on the internet _the moment they are spoken_. What is it you want? You’re so quick to impeach DtC because he “saw it on t.v.”, but as far as I’ve seen, NONE of you who are claiming it is customary for people who are caught driving on a license suspended for reckless driving to serve a full jail sentence have even _that_ much to base your claim on. You appear to be simply pulling that assertion out of your ass. Again, if it’s NORMAL to serve very little or none of your sentence in jail, then doing so does not constitute “preferential treatment”. Here’s a written source - today’s Los Angeles Times: > [@](#): > > The questions have loomed large over the Los Angeles County justice system for years as judges watch in frustration as the sheriff **slashed the sentences they handed down, often by 90%…** Understand? It is CUSTOMARY to release prisoners early. Therefore, if a particular prisoner is released early, it doesn’t necessarily follow that he/she is getting better treatment than the average person. and > [@](#): > > [Sheriff Lee Baca noted] that she had served the 10% of her sentence **currently being served by most female inmates in the county** and > [@](#): > > In the last five years, the Sheriff’s Department has released more than 200,000 inmates early, including some who ended up committing murders and other serious crimes when they otherwise would have been behind bars. See, here’s a problem - the jails can’t hold all the people we want to put in them, so we have to let _someone_ out. If we devote all our resources to incarcerating people because they are “rich spoiled bitches” and we hate them, then we have to let truly dangerous people out early instead. > [@](#): > > True story. Coworker of mine got arrested for DUI. Got probation, suspended license, mandatory alcohol classes, had to take random breathalyzer tests. One morning he up and failed his test. Thirty days in prison. The only way he could get released from prison was to get himself into a rehab facility where he could serve the rest of his time. He spent five days in jail and twenty-five in rehab. Well then by the standards the mob is applying to Hilton, your co-worker got special treatment, since he only spent five days in jail. > [@](#): > > There. Now we have proof that people actually do spend time in jail for probation violation. Yeah, 5 days - just like Paris served before the jackals appeared. P.S. - Paris pleaded hers down to reckless driving, from what I understand. So your friend was actually convicted of a more serious crime, yet did less time in jail than Paris is going to do. So yeah, she’s being treated differently, but it’s _harsher_ treatment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-goes-free-wtf/407120.md?page=17)