# Paris is Burning **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523 "2015-11-14T03:02:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/21 "2015-11-14T06:43:29Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Even if clairobscur’s figures are true that is probably only what can be supported overseas with their own logistics stream. If US / Allied forces are providing help with logistics theres no reason they couldn’t send a lot more, they have over 200,000 active in the French Armed Forces. I highly doubt that will happen. We’re talking about a country that has never thought much of NATO membership, or any other sort of military partnership. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/22 "2015-11-14T06:47:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > For all the joking we do about France and surrendering and all that, the French are capable fighters with decent equipment and have been pretty ferocious when they had to be. The problem is that the targets for French retaliation are not obvious. This. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A more interesting question is how this is going to change the situation regarding mass emigration into Europe, which has already caused a lot of political blowback against leaders in the EU. It will make an already hot topic even hotter. The events of Paris will stir a call for governments to do \*something \*about Islamist terrorism. And since, as you observed, an appropriate target for counteraction is not obvious, there will be many for whom any target will do. The one thing we \*can \*do is show the French some solidarity. If a friend has been hit, it is not my first impulse to tell them “That’s your own fault, you wimp.” as **ITR champion** seems to find appropriate. (Then again, I do not know whether he considers France a friend.) ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/23 "2015-11-14T07:39:48Z")
Missiles, planes, drones: one option might be to stop thinking of ‘bombing the shit’ out of something as a normal policy option - cos I see that here on ST every single week, like it ever resolves anything. I know it’s nice and sanitised and no bodies get flown to Andrews but it does tend to piss off the people you do that to, especially when they’re on the other side of the world. Of course, it suits many to not think about the cause of the anger in a rational way - better to say they do these things ‘because they hate freedom’. When in fact it is freedom from the West they want so desperately some are literally happy to blow themselves into a thousand pieces in that cause. But I’m sure the answer right now will be to bomb the shit out of something on the other side of the world. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/24 "2015-11-14T07:44:09Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > The one thing we \*can \*do is show the French some solidarity. If a friend has been hit, it is not my first impulse to tell them “That’s your own fault, you wimp.” as **ITR champion** seems to find appropriate. I don’t recall saying any such thing. I made two points: French government spends very generously on domestic things (i.e. pensions, welfare, &c…) and does not maintain a military capable of a full-scale war. These are verifiable facts. As a result, I speculated that Hollande’s promises for “war without pity” probably won’t be kept. Maybe I’m wrong. But I didn’t say that the terrorist attacks of tonight (or any other) are France’s fault. For the record, I love France. Lived there for a year as a kid and a summer as a graduate student. Love the cities. Love the countryside. Love the chocolate eclaires. I strongly hope that France and the rest of Europe can recognize the threat of Islamic extremism and defeat it. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/25 "2015-11-14T07:46:46Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I strongly hope that France and the rest of Europe can recognize the threat of Islamic extremism and defeat it. Yep, there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/26 "2015-11-14T07:53:58Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I don’t recall saying any such thing. I made two points: French government spends very generously on domestic things (i.e. pensions, welfare, &c…) and does not maintain a military capable of a full-scale war. These are verifiable facts. As a result, I speculated that Hollande’s promises for “war without pity” probably won’t be kept. Maybe I’m wrong. > > But I didn’t say that the terrorist attacks of tonight (or any other) are France’s fault. > > For the record, I love France. Lived there for a year as a kid and a summer as a graduate student. Love the cities. Love the countryside. Love the chocolate eclaires. I strongly hope that France and the rest of Europe can recognize the threat of Islamic extremism and defeat it. You made your points in the follwing words: > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The French voters have gotten used to spending government money on their own luxurious living rather than national defense, always assuming that if the worst happened, the USA would do the biggest share of the fighting. I did not take that for much of an address in solidarity. I can assure you that Europe has long realized the threat of Islamic extremism and I appreciate any support in defeating it. But you can be as much aware of the threat as you want, there is no way to create absolute safety. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/27 "2015-11-14T07:59:49Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Missiles, planes, drones: one option might be to stop thinking of ‘bombing the shit’ out of something as a normal policy option - cos I see that here on ST every single week, like it ever resolves anything. I know it’s nice and sanitised and no bodies get flown to Andrews but it does tend to piss off the people you do that to, especially when they’re on the other side of the world. > > Of course, it suits many to not think about the cause of the anger in a rational way - better to say they do these things ‘because they hate freedom’. When in fact it is freedom from the West they want so desperately some are literally happy to blow themselves into a thousand pieces in that cause. > > But I’m sure the answer right now will be to bomb the shit out of something on the other side of the world. Seems like a “dammned if I do, dammned if I don’t” type of situation. Sure - we could have decided to make sure that nice guys like Saddam, Ghaddafi and Assad stay in power, because they kindly keep the lid on all the extremist tendencies in their countries. (And the means they use to do that are theirs, not ours, so we’re good, right?) Is that the approach you would have preferred? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/28 "2015-11-14T08:05:22Z")
Does Paris not have “safe zones” in their colleges, like the US does, where people could evacuate in case of emergencies? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/29 "2015-11-14T08:11:08Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Does Paris not have “safe zones” in their colleges, like the US does, where people could evacuate in case of emergencies? Not that I’m aware of, and certainly not in bars and night clubs, which were the target in this case. Unfortunately, it doesn’t take a large number or a particularly well-organised group of people to do a lot of damage, if they’re sufficiently determined and on a suicide mission anyway; and few counter-measures are 100% effective without making normal life difficult to impossible for most people. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/30 "2015-11-14T08:12:23Z")
Other than a hundred or so untimely deaths, why is this such big news story? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/31 "2015-11-14T08:14:03Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Does Paris not have “safe zones” in their colleges, like the US does, where people could evacuate in case of emergencies? Is that what college safe zones are? How are they defended? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/32 "2015-11-14T08:20:26Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Other than a hundred or so untimely deaths, why is this such big news story? A single spree shooter causing 100+ deaths would be international news so matter what their motivation. Coordinated attacks by multiple gunmen in a major western city are very rare, and thus newsworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/33 "2015-11-14T08:31:34Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Other than a hundred or so untimely deaths, why is this such big news story? Are you missing an update on the Kardashians already? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/34 "2015-11-14T08:32:18Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > A single spree shooter causing 100+ deaths would be international news so matter what their motivation. Coordinated attacks by multiple gunmen in a major western city are very rare, and thus newsworthy. …major western city…newsworthy. That about sum it up? I’m being obtuse, but that’s the main point, right? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/35 "2015-11-14T08:35:18Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Are you missing an update on the Kardashians already? Facebook is no longer flooded with anything but Paris, I’m just curious why. Not the specific facts of this particular tragedy, but why this incident in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/36 "2015-11-14T08:42:58Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > …major western city…newsworthy. > > That about sum it up? I’m being obtuse, but that’s the main point, right? I recall the superficially similar [Mumbai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks) attacks getting plenty of air as well. If your argument is this is getting far more press than, say, the [Beirut bombing](http://news.yahoo.com/lebanon-mourns-41-killed-bomb-attack-hezbollah-bastion-054928869.html) yesterday, I suppose there is something to be said for that. But these sort of multi-target gunman attacks in major metropolitan areas outside of ( or in Beirut’s case, near to ) warzones are relatively rare. And yes, it is a very prominent “Western” city. Hence the attention. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/37 "2015-11-14T08:45:09Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Facebook is no longer flooded with anything but Paris, I’m just curious why. Not the specific facts of this particular tragedy, but why this incident in particular. I don’t know your FB friends but yes you’re being obtuse or aspergerish. In any case, ISIS will have to be dealt with eventually. But there needs to be a framework and plan for a post-ISIS Syria which does not include mere assisting other Islamists. Russia proposed a peace plan a few days ago, and there’s an upcoming international meeting on how to deal with Syria. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/38 "2015-11-14T08:54:19Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > You made your points in the follwing words: Why yes, I did. And my words were not anything remotely like “That’s your own fault, you wimp”, which is what you accused me of saying. Good night. [Quote=Sam Stone] Is that what college safe zones are? How are they defended? [/quote] **Captain Obvious** was joking. Left wing students [at some](https://reason.com/blog/2015/11/06/watch-students-tell-yale-to-fire-a-staff) American [universities](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/how-campus-activists-are-weaponizing-the-safe-space/415080/) are demanding that their campuses be “safe zones” or “safe spaces”. While no exact definition is ever given, the definition of “safe space” appears to mean a place where no one can say or do anything that the left wing students dislike. They create safe spaces by demanding [that administrators censor students and faculty](http://www.amherstsoul.com/post/133122838315/amherst-uprising-what-we-stand-for) and, in one case at the University of Missouri, assaulting a student. If this use of the term “safe space” sounds Orwellian to you, well, it does to me too. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/39 "2015-11-14T08:54:29Z")
I really haven’t read anything more than 100 or so dead in Paris(and a bunch of meme stuff on FB). Does Paris need anyone’s prayers? Or help? Is this just the latest news to talk about? I’m being extremely curious. I’m probably very ignorant, but not dumb. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523/40 "2015-11-14T08:56:32Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > …major western city…newsworthy. > > That about sum it up? I’m being obtuse, but that’s the main point, right? Attacks in a top tier western city are going to get a lot more media time because more media is based there, and they have a lot of people living there and concerned friends to make facebook posts about the attack. Simple really and no sinister agenda involved. list of global cities, Paris is Alpha+ level by this metric: > **[Global city](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city)** > > A global city, also known as a power city, world city, alpha city, or world center, is a city that serves as a primary node in the global economic network. The concept originates from geography and urban studies, based on the thesis that globalization has created a hierarchy of strategic geographic locations with varying degrees of influence over finance, trade, and culture worldwide. The global city represents the most complex and significant hub within the international system, characteriz... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paris-is-burning/737523.md?page=3)