# Parks and Recreation, The Office, NBC, and me **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488 "2009-05-15T03:27:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/21 "2009-05-15T17:59:45Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > You shouldn’t complain that no one seems to care. No one cares that you care. If you don’t like it, don’t watch either of them. Agreed. It’s television. You want high art, head to the library. Television is entertainment, spoon fed. Of course NBC didn’t think that no one would notice that P&R and the Office had identical formulas; they sold P&R on the strength of The Office’s proven following. If you want to be angry that NBC decided to make even more money on the back of The Office, feel free, but do not expect it to ever change. Besides that, “progress” in all media isn’t measured in huge leaps forward; every show, song, book, whatever, is derivative of everything that came before it. If you aren’t familiar or comfortable with this by now, you might consider moving somewhere beyond to reach of mass media. Try the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/22 "2009-05-15T18:13:29Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Agreed. It’s television. You want high art, head to the library. Television is entertainment, spoon fed. Of course NBC didn’t think that no one would notice that P&R and the Office had identical formulas; they sold P&R on the strength of The Office’s proven following. If you want to be angry that NBC decided to make even more money on the back of The Office, feel free, but do not expect it to ever change. > > Besides that, “progress” in all media isn’t measured in huge leaps forward; every show, song, book, whatever, is derivative of everything that came before it. If you aren’t familiar or comfortable with this by now, you might consider moving somewhere beyond to reach of mass media. Try the moon. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t complain that no one seems to care. No one cares that you care. If you don’t like it, don’t watch either of them. Good lord. Sorry I brought anything up, as I didn’t realize you’d all take my gripe so personally and seriously. For the record, I didn’t really think I could change the face of TV with anything I had to say here, I just thought I would observe, vent a little and maybe open a discussion on the somewhat sorry state of primetime TV these days. But if no one cares, and no one cares that I care, well, what the hell do I care? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/23 "2009-05-15T18:25:14Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > We’re better than this, people. You know how I know? Cuz we all love 30 Rock. This is why people took it personal. It wasn’t your original gripe, it was the implied accusation that you would have to be stupid to enjoy a show just because its formula has been done before. No one implied you were worse off for NOT liking it… > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > But if no one cares, and no one cares that I care, well, what the hell do I care? And when are people going to learn that if you’re gonna play the martyr, you’re gonna have to die?\* \*I wish absolutely not one iota of harm on Happy, and I am most definitely not trying to pick a fight with someone I know not from Adam, but his parting shot was a bit too “woe-is-me” to leave untouched. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/24 "2009-05-15T18:27:58Z")
Plenty of people here are saying they see the similarities between the shows. It’s up to them as individuals to decided wether or not that’s a deal maker or breaker. The points you were making aren’t the problem. It’s just that they don’t need someone telling them whether or not they should care either way. They can do that on their own. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/25 "2009-05-15T18:33:00Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Dumb but lovable father with a long-suffering wife and bratty kids. _All in the Famly,_ _Home Improvement_ or _The Simpsons_? o/` One of these things is not like the others. One of these things doesn't belong. Can you tell me which thing is not like the others by the time I finish this song? o/` ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/26 "2009-05-15T18:33:51Z")
I’ve watched _P&R_ from the start. Didn’t like it at first, but it has grown on me. Yes it’s like _The Office_ in style, but the stories are really different and Amy Poehler is different from Steve Carell. Her character, Leslie, is subtly different from Michael Scott. Both their characters lack self-awareness of how people perceived them. Michael is indeed delusional about his personal greatness and is truly buffoonish at times. The Leslie character comes across as just naive (not dumb or stupid) and that’s why she looks up to her politician mom (wonderfully played by Pamela Reed) so much. While Michael is hopeless, I see Leslie as having a chance to mature as the series unfolds. I’m hoping that _P&R_ gets a full season next year, but they need to tinker with the cast a bit. A great strength of _The Office_ is its wonderful cast with well-developed personalities. So far we’ve only had glimpses of what makes the rest of the _P&R_ cast tick. The Tom Haverford and Ann Perkins (Rashida Jones, Jim’s old flame) are great. Aziz Ansari really cracks me up with his lines and delivery. The rest of the cast, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/27 "2009-05-15T18:44:39Z")
Eh. I like The Office and I’ve enjoyed P&R so far. Of course I noticed they were similar in their delivery, but since the style worked for me I never considered that I should be upset about it. Besides the stories, settings, and supporting casts are dissimilar enough that they really don’t step on each others toes. As far as the mockumentary thing, at this point I’ve often forgot that it was even suppose to be that, that there was suppose to be an actual camera crew there. I always just took the confessionals(?) as a matter of exposition; simply a peak into the characters brain, sort of like JD’s daydreams on Scrubs. What I would like to see is, as \*\*HL \*\*said in post 8, since the Office and P&R universes are so similar, a crossover scene/episode where we see from one show or another’s (or both) perspective, the other camera crew following the other show’s character. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/28 "2009-05-15T19:28:57Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Plenty of people here are saying they see the similarities between the shows. It’s up to them as individuals to decided wether or not that’s a deal maker or breaker. The points you were making aren’t the problem. It’s just that they don’t need someone telling them whether or not they should care either way. They can do that on their own. First off, I didn’t realize trying to “convince” people of why they should or shouldn’t care about a television show was a no-no in a forum dedicated to the discussion of, amongst other things, television shows. I was merely observing, commenting, lamenting. But was I also trying to persuade people to see my side? Sure. Isn’t that what we do here? Second…meh. It ain’t worth it. Sorry if I took a shit on a show you like. Sorry if I came off as a martyr, wasn’t intended. Sorry if I offended anyone with the 30 Rock comment or anything else. Sincere apologies all around. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/29 "2009-05-15T19:32:56Z")
No one has a problem with “your side”. That’s why I encourage you not to watch; Because I don’t care. You seem to care. I quoted that part of your post for a reason. The rest, I can see your point. If it’s enough for you to tune out, I support your decision. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/30 "2009-05-15T19:53:34Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > No one has a problem with “your side”. That’s why I encourage you not to watch; Because I don’t care. You seem to care. I quoted that part of your post for a reason. The rest, I can see your point. If it’s enough for you to tune out, I support your decision. All right dude. Thanks for the encouragement not to watch, and your support. But really, I wasn’t looking for advice on what to do with my television on Thursday nights. I was merely starting a discussion. Maybe I came off as offensive at some point upthread, which wasn’t intended, for which I do apologize. However, I think you’re taking this much more seriously than I ever intended it to be. Oy vey, can we close this thread? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/31 "2009-05-15T19:56:25Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > … I wasn’t looking for advice on what to do with my television on Thursday nights. Read the part of your post that I quoted in post #20, then follow your own advice quoted above. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/32 "2009-05-15T20:00:48Z")
Hey **Happy** , I’m with you. When I saw the first episode I thought it was _such_ a clone/rip-off it annoyed the shit out of me immediately. I’ve kept watching in the hopes I’d get over it, but frankly, I don’t think I’ve ever laughed at a single line, so I’m pretty much giving up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/33 "2009-05-15T20:11:51Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Read the part of your post that I quoted in post #20, then follow your own advice quoted above. Uh, yeah, again thanks. Again, this thread wasn’t meant to be seeking advice or offending fans or anyone else, and again I sincerely apologize for the way I came off upthread, or if I gave you the impression that I needed advice. What more do you want me to say? Are you really that concerned that I’m still going to watch a show I don’t care for? Cuz I really don’t understand why you’re reacting like this. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/34 "2009-05-15T20:16:28Z")
Oh God. The only thing that you have said that I object to is: > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > And to add to my beef: No one apparently cares; it’s this type of apathy toward lazy scheduling that gives us 24-hours a day of reality programming, Howie Mandel, and celebrities making asses of themselves. A show may entertain me, but that doesn’t mean I want to watch a carbon-copy immediately following it. But maybe that’s just me. You’re the one that started to make this more personal, not I. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/35 "2009-05-15T20:21:57Z")
Oh, **Happy** , it’s just that they’re so much more _mature_ than you, see? Certainly they’ve never complained about any pop entertainment in their lives, because they can just change the channel/radio station/what-have-you. They only get worked up over matters that affect entire _hemispheres_. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about posters on the SDMB, it’s that they’re heroic figures who don’t taint themselves by stooping to become embrioled in the petty concerns of the hoi polloi. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/36 "2009-05-15T20:24:18Z")
You know what, you’re right. P&R viewers are ruining TV. Happy? BTW, I still haven’t watched the final. You make it seem as if I care that you don’t enjoy something I’m not 100% dedicated to myself. It’s just silly that you would have a BEEF with the people who watch. who “don’t care”. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/37 "2009-05-15T20:37:37Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Oh, **Happy** , it’s just that they’re so much more _mature_ than you, see? Certainly they’ve never complained about any pop entertainment in their lives, because they can just change the channel/radio station/what-have-you. They only get worked up over matters that affect entire _hemispheres_. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about posters on the SDMB, it’s that they’re heroic figures who don’t taint themselves by stooping to become embrioled in the petty concerns of the hoi polloi. Hahaha, how ridiculous. I believe you may be confused… This was Happy’s entire premise: that one would have to be a fool to enjoy a funny show if said funny show was derivative of another. No one said that he didn’t have a right to feel that way, or that we were obviously more mature than him because we didn’t feel that way. We simply said if you don’t like it, don’t watch, but don’t tell us we are stupid for liking it, or that a show can’t be entertaining if it resembles (even greatly) another show. Re-read the thread. Slower this time, maybe. And MyFootZZZ, I thought the finale was the best of the season, and it featured very little of the boss guy (who normally carries the show, for me, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/38 "2009-05-15T20:40:28Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Hahaha, how ridiculous. I believe you may be confused… > > This was Happy’s entire premise: that one would have to be a fool to enjoy a funny show if said funny show was derivative of another. No one said that he didn’t have a right to feel that way, or that we were obviously more mature than him because we didn’t feel that way. We simply said if you don’t like it, don’t watch, but don’t tell us we are stupid for liking it, or that a show can’t be entertaining if it resembles (even greatly) another show. > > Re-read the thread. Slower this time, maybe. > And MyFootZZZ, I thought the finale was the best of the season, and it featured very little of the boss guy (who normally carries the show, for me, anyway). Thank you. You put it better than perhaps I had. I really meant it when I said I’m fine with people on \*\*Happy’s \*\*side. It’s \*\*Happy’s \*\*“added beef” that I felt was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/39 "2009-05-15T21:18:31Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Oh God. > The only thing that you have said that I object to is: > > You’re the one that started to make this more personal, not I. For which I repeatedly apologized, but yet you continue to throw out there for me. And when did I say you made it personal? > [@](#): > > This was Happy’s entire premise: that one would have to be a fool to enjoy a funny show if said funny show was derivative of another. No one said that he didn’t have a right to feel that way, or that we were obviously more mature than him because we didn’t feel that way. We simply said if you don’t like it, don’t watch, but don’t tell us we are stupid for liking it, or that a show can’t be entertaining if it resembles (even greatly) another show. > > Re-read the thread. Slower this time, maybe. Again, apologies for doing that. So when does it cease to be relevant to the conversation? > [@](#): > > Thank you. You put it better than perhaps I had. I really meant it when I said I’m fine with people on Happy’s side. It’s Happy’s “added beef” that I felt was wrong Am I in a bizzaro world now? Am I being Punk’d? Why are we still even talking about the things I’ve apologized for and admitted to being wrong about? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488/40 "2009-05-15T21:39:49Z")
I just saw the last episode, it was really good. The only thing I don’t like about it is that Ron is actually turning out to be the \*least \*sleazy of the male characters. Which means they’re all pretty sleazy. I didn’t mind Mark until he hit on Ann. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parks-and-recreation-the-office-nbc-and-me/496488.md?page=3)