# Parody or Trolling? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549 "2002-07-24T12:05:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/1 "2002-07-24T12:05:22Z")
I’m getting sick of a trend in the Pit: People are posting parodies of someone else’s idiocy, but they DON’T post a link to the original in the “parody” thus generating a bunch of angry responses. **Sparc** does this [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127125), but he’s by no means the only one. Yes, I “fell for it”. Yes, I was wooshed (and I’m not the only one who did). Yes, I’m getting pissed by this trend. And, once I got the fucking link, yeah, it was very well done. Until then, it was as much a troll as if he’d posted thread titled “Nigger Queers Must Die”, just to see the responses. And he’s by no means the only person who’s done this. And it isn’t sour grapes about the fact that I fell for it, I’ve bitched about this before, see [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113873). I wanna know, parodists, how exactly, it undermines the artistry of your satire to post a fucking link as a PS after your post? The first reason that would come to mind, if I didn’t consider the otherwise exemplary nature of the posters doing this, is that if you do, you won’t get the same angry reaction from other posters. Which, pretty much, is what the standard definition of trolling is. (I was wondering if **Sparc** had gone insane in the other thread). I know the people doing this don’t have trolling as their intent, but intent doesn’t matter in this case. I think it’s just a habit, but it’s a habit it’s long past time to break. I’m **NOT** saying to stop these parody threads, they’re funny and effective once you share the joke, I’m just saying “Post a goddamned link in the OP so everyone can be in on the joke.” Fenris, prepared for being called a humorless fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/2 "2002-07-24T12:20:58Z")
Fenris, you humorless fuck. Don’t you realize how much work it takes to write a successful, genuinely humorous parody? Here’s a hint: try it some time, and see how long it takes you. Nobody has time to searcch for the original page, let alone dick around trying to code the url properly. Of course, if you ever took the effort to write one of these things, you’d know this. Until you do, you don’t get an opinion. [sub]Yes, I’m being facetious here, but meanwhile, count me in the camp of people who think it breaks the humor.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/3 "2002-07-24T12:22:10Z")
Well, I agree with you, you humorless fuck. Sort of, though. I can see an OP without link. But a couple of wooshes is enough: he should have posted the link in his first response after the OP, and not wait for someone else to do it. Then again, I don’t think it’s that big a deal, really. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/4 "2002-07-24T12:31:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Well, I agree with you, you humorless fuck. > > Sort of, though. I can see an OP without link. But a couple of wooshes is enough: he should have posted the link in his first response after the OP, and not wait for someone else to do it. > > Then again, I don’t think it’s that big a deal, really. \*\* It really bugs me. What’s the point of not putting the link in? It only takes seconds and it ensures that the post _won’t_ be considered trolling. How is deliberately trying to mislead your fellow Dopers by posting outrageous statments for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of them NOT trolling and/or jerkish behavior? And frankly, it seems pretty cowardly: “I’m gonna mock someone, but I’m not gonna say who.” **Some Guy** : How would having an underline in the first word or sentence (from a URL) “undermine the humor”, unless the ‘humor’ is in trolling your fellow Dopers? For instance: [There are people who think they’re some of the smartest people on the planet](http://boards.straightdope.com) These people call themselves “dopers”. or even [There](http://boards.straightdope.com) are people who think they’re some of the smartest people on the planet. These people call themselves “dopers”. Doesn’t change the meaning or humor (in this case ‘humor’) of the post at all. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/5 "2002-07-24T12:36:07Z")
I wouldn’t have known it was a parody, because I’m not familiar with **Sparc**. And I have a habit of taking someone’s words at face value unless I have something that tells me to do otherwise. A smiley, a link, something… ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/6 "2002-07-24T12:52:38Z")
I tend to agree with you in general but there was a different flavour to **Sparc’s** in so much as the parody was (presumably) partly intended to demonstrate the _reaction_ the original post _could_ have generated if the roles (continents, in this case) were reversed. I thought it hit the spot in this case but things do get out of hand pretty quickly in the Pit – tricky game, need to watch those knees jerking. IMHO the context, in this case, merited the lack of a link (at least for a while) but, as a general rule, I think the whoosed **Ferris** is probably right 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/7 "2002-07-24T13:06:27Z")
Bah Hunting the original is part of the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/8 "2002-07-24T13:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Bah > > Hunting the original is part of the fun. \*\* Then don’t click on the link that should be manditory. How do you know if there _is_ an original? Had Freakfreely posted the OP of his infamous “meltdown” post today, we’d be wondering if it was a parody. Every single word that Sweetwilly or CuriousGeorge\* ever wrote reads like a parody. I agree with **spooge** ’s comment about taking people’s words at face value. Fenris \*I _think_ it was CuriousGeorge…if it wasn’t, substitute the name of the “Gang of Four” member who was the loon who thought that GWB’s Texas accent was part of a mind-control program. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/9 "2002-07-24T13:27:26Z")
Bah, yourself. As the “victim” of a serious drive-by whooshing, I concur with his Royal Fenrosity. So, there! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/10 "2002-07-24T14:01:18Z")
I just hate the idea of explaining parody. I mean, you either get it or you don’t. It’s either well written, or it’s not. The best parody’s are when you’re just not sure, it could go either way. Showing a link is like explaining a joke. Then again, I’ve been consistently told that I’m obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/11 "2002-07-24T14:05:35Z")
Well, if the idea is to see how many people you can fool, then bully for you. Seems the parody would be just as effective if a link was hidden, say in a smiley. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/12 "2002-07-24T14:07:58Z")
London\_Calling is on the spot. My intent was not only to ridicule the poster in question, but also to provoke a reaction showing how offensive the original was. Therefore I let the first couple of posts fly with the intent to use them for as base for a continued parody (see below). Sailor posted the woosh link pretty early on, way before you posted for instance Fenris! I would have surmised that this was enough, but no. Generally speaking the woosh word was in the air from the very get go Tomndebb hesitated on it and ArlanzaCharles tentatively proposed it. Not only that, the first friggin’ reply by Manhattan was obviously indicative of the fact that it had been understood to be satire and parody. Hence, I truly thought that most people would catch on pretty soon. Further I totally disagree with Fenris as regards the need for a link. A) The fact that it is in the Pit should be enough to give caution. B) It’s not just the OP that is the parody in the best of cases, but the whole thread. Not long ago Libertarian and I carried on for a couple of pages, albeit on a somewhat less offensive subject. People seemed to appreciate it a lot as entertainment. There were those that still thought I was wooshed after my fourth post. My idiocies in response to Lib’s, gave Lib the comical foil he needed to continue the parody. In the end it was very efficient, the target of Lib’s parody completely changed tack in his debating style in GD, much to the benefit of reason and sensibility. C) Personally I feel the way Mangetout does, it ruins some of the fun - but that’s a matter of taste I guess. > [@](#): > > _Fenris in my parody thread_ > > [regarding checking posts of poster before jerking knee] > Like, say…FreakFreely? Or any of a number of other high post count types who either melted down or committed suicide by mod? Hell, I think Sweetwilly got up to what…400 or so posts and every single word he wrote was “patently absurd and idiotic”. I tend to take Doper’s words at face-value. A link to the original thread would have prevented the confusion. My point exactly, although we seem to have different ways to a solution. By browsing over a few posts you usually see if the poster has a tendency to be whacky and absurd, or blatantly offensive. Now I might be abusive when personally provoked or faced with what I just parodied at times, but I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a post on these boards that I made which was bigoted, xenophobic or downright offensive in the ways of Mr. ElJeffe. Hence the response would be either ‘Lost it now Sparc?’ or ‘Parody eh?’ I’m not saying this is a must, it ruins premise B of my parody premises if everyone does search, but before one goes ahead and takes apart an OP with as much rigor as you did, it might be a sane way to save oneself some waste of time (if one accepts that a link is not a must be solution in the OP). I’m truly sorry if you feel that I made a fool out of you Fenris, that was never my intent, but in my opinion you should have followed Sailor’s link and had some alarm bells go off already after reply 1 by Manhattan – before you pressed submit reply. And for what it’s worth I don’t think your reaction warrants calling you a humorless fuck. In parts my parody was maybe a little too subtle in the absurd clues towards that that it was parody, without catching those and viewing the rest from that vantage point there is not much that is funny with what I wrote. Unfortunately the original contained the reverse offensiveness and wasn’t even a joke. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/13 "2002-07-24T14:10:54Z")
This is all some sort of parody, isn’t it? I’m so confused… ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/14 "2002-07-24T14:19:41Z")
> [@](#): > > A) The fact that it is in the Pit should be enough to give caution. So things posted in the Pit should always be taken with a grain of salt? I would understand this if you were talking about MPSIMS, but the Pit? Most threads posted in there are done so by people trying to get something off their chest. It’s viewed as a serious forum, not a “fun” forum, although the bickering and name-calling can be entertaining. I dunno. There are different fora for different reasons. If you’re going to post a parody without a cite (therefore posting it for the purpose of fooling people), it seems the right place for one would be in MPSIMS. That is, if you just want to be entertaining. Seems to me that if you don’t want to post any kind of link, your main goal is to fool as many people as possible. And that **is** trolling. PS to Munch: Damned if I know! I’m just a clueless yob. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/15 "2002-07-24T14:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > My intent was not only to ridicule the poster in question, but also to provoke a reaction showing how offensive the original was. So…it was sort of a social experiment? ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/16 "2002-07-24T14:53:12Z")
dantheman, posting a parody as provocative as mine in MPSIMS, would be trolling IMHO - not only that, but also a bannable offense given the content of my parody. Posting with the sole intent to fool people that this is my opinion would be as well. Posting with the intent to make a point as to how idiotic or offensive the original is by creating a reaction is not. In any case you can’t just isolate a thread or a post and say that it constitutes trolling. Trolling is a behavior after all, not just content. Actually in a way it is the consistent lack of consistency in content coupled with provocative behavior, no? But who am I to judge, I’d rather say that it is up to the powers that be to decide what trolling is, and then give us due warning if what seems to be the consensus has changed. As far as I had understood it, parody without a link does not fall within that definition, but I might be wrong. And yes, one should be wary as to what one reads in the Pit, because we have a wide variety of uses for the Pit. To me the Pit is just a place where I can take it or be taken if it gets out of hand in GD. Then again I mostly post in GD, sometimes in GQ and when so inclined or required in here. To others the Pit is a place to freely rant and rave about the world. Both are fine as far as I go, but since I know that we read it differently, I tend to apply some measure of salt when reading an OP in the Pit. More than anywhere I have my sarcasm and irony meter switched to highest sensibility all the time, which I absolutely do not have in GD. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/17 "2002-07-24T14:53:38Z")
I agree with Fenris. There is no gain in making people who are not, in fact, idiots, look like idiots. If we have done something to deserve mocking, then mock away. Otherwise go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/18 "2002-07-24T14:57:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > \*\*My intent was not only to ridicule the poster in question, but also to provoke a reaction showing how offensive the original was. Therefore I let the first couple of posts fly with the intent to use them for as base for a continued parody (see below). \*\* But this **is** trolling. By definition. Trying to “provoke a reaction” is the whole point of trolling. (I’m not saying you’re a troll: one incident does not a troll make). But this is the standard, common-use definition of trolling, and that’s what I object to. I don’t want to have to do a search on every single post in the Pit or elsewhere to find out if the post is a troll or a real, honest-to-gosh meltdown. Lookit…um…\< blank \>, (had several near-meltdowns in the Pit, posted very classy apology saying he’d stay out of the Pit forthwith…I know I’ll remember the name five seconds after I post.) Several of his posts sounded _exactly_ like these parody posts, he was (and is) a respected poster. What this sort of thing does is start to undermine the basic sense of trust and community that the place has. I don’t want to read every single post wondering “Ok, does he mean this or is he jes’ funnin’” We used to regularly get trolls who’d come in, be argumentative and then say “Ahh, I was jes’ joking.”. How is this different (other than the fact that you’re not a troll and your intent WASA to joke I tend to read and react, I generally don’t go through the entire thread before posting a response unless it’s a debate where the point might have been made. \*\* > [@](#): > > My point exactly, although we seem to have different ways to a solution. By browsing over a few posts you usually see if the poster has a tendency to be whacky and absurd, or blatantly offensive. > \*\* Given how much searches slow down the board, I’d just as soon see a link. \*\* > [@](#): > > In parts my parody was maybe a little too subtle in the absurd clues towards that that it was parody, without catching those and viewing the rest from that vantage point there is not much that is funny with what I wrote. \*\* Well, for one, satire and parody aren’t funny unless you’re familiar with the source material. Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford and stumbling about wouldn’t be funny unless you knew who Gerald Ford was. Your post, in retrospect, WAS funny to me. But not until I’d viewed the source material. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/19 "2002-07-24T15:00:57Z")
oops, I meantt: “[…] a bannable offense given the _intent_ of my parody.” (In as much as that it was a flame post directed at ElJeffe. That ElJeffe’s post verges on bannable for grounds of racism by ways of xenophobia and hence that my parody emulates that doesn’t make it less so) ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/20 "2002-07-24T15:06:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > dantheman, posting a parody as provocative as mine in MPSIMS, would be trolling IMHO - not only that, but also a bannable offense given the content of my parody. Posting with the sole intent to fool people that this is my opinion would be as well. Posting with the intent to make a point as to how idiotic or offensive the original is by creating a reaction is not. If you’re mainly pointing out the absurdity of something (i.e., parodying), then of course you’re not trolling. But if you’re posting something without leaving any kind of clue that that _is_ what you’re doing, then you’re deliberately trying to fool people into thinking that your post is serious. Which is trolling, IMO. > [@](#): > > In any case you can’t just isolate a thread or a post and say that it constitutes trolling. Trolling is a behavior after all, not just content. Actually in a way it is the consistent lack of consistency in content coupled with provocative behavior, no? Actually, you can. No, not one post, but certainly people have been called out for trollish behavior over the course of one thread. Doesn’t take more than one thread to exhibit this behavior at all. > [@](#): > > But who am I to judge, I’d rather say that it is up to the powers that be to decide what trolling is, and then give us due warning if what seems to be the consensus has changed. As far as I had understood it, parody without a link does not fall within that definition, but I might be wrong. You might be right - if I get a clear definition of trolling that doesn’t cover what you’ve done, then never mind. My impression, though, is that this does fall under the definition. It’s also worth mentioning, though, that this would be the most benign form of trolling, if it indeed is classified as such. I realize you’re just being entertaining, not mean-spirited (as many trolls are). [/QUOTE] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549.md?page=2)