# Parody or Trolling? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549 "2002-07-24T12:05:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/21 "2002-07-24T15:09:33Z")
**Sparc** said: > [@](#): > > Sailor posted the woosh link pretty early on, way before you posted for instance Fenris! I think this is the important point, here. **Fenris** asked in the OP for a link to the “source” material. **sailor** posted a link over an hour before **Fenris** posted. Now, I’m willing to accept that **Fenris** takes over an hour to compose a post, but it looks suspiciously like a case of “not reading the entire thread before posting” to me. Just sayin’, is all… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/22 "2002-07-24T15:16:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > \*\* > > But who am I to judge, I’d rather say that it is up to the powers that be to decide what trolling is, and then give us due warning if what seems to be the consensus has changed. As far as I had understood it, parody without a link does not fall within that definition, but I might be wrong.\*\* First, I want to make it clear that this isn’t just about **Sparc**. Others have done this before. And I think I’ve dug up a thread in [ATMB](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71181) where I asked: > [@](#): > > \*From \*_Fenris_: > I have a vague rememberance that the board frowns on posters taking a devil’s advocate position in debates. I can’t find a specific ruling, but… > > As long as I’m up front about it, (no “Oh, I was just taking that position as part my grand psychological experiment” type crap four pages in) is it ok?\*\* both **Coldie** and **Tuba** herself point-blank said that stirr. > [@](#): > > _From Coldie: > As long as you state your intentions clearly, I see nothing wrong with it - provided you still observe all board rules, of course._ > [@](#): > > _From Tuba: > As long as you make it clear that you’re genuinely trying to invite discussion and debate and not just being a mindless troll about something, stirring the pot for the sake of getting people all agitated, that’s the difference._ Empahsis mine Ok, parody threads aren’t exactly the same thing as playing devil’s advocate, but they’re pretty damned close. I don’t want to see parody threads stopped or banned, **Lib** is an artist with them and **Sparc** ’s was awfully good too, but I think that this implies that at minimum, posting a link to the parodied thread in the OP should be considered a must. Fenris PS, **Necros** : I already admitted I didn’t read the entire thread first. I shouldn’t have to when I’m responding directly to the OP. In GD or GQ you _have_ to read the entire thread first. You don’t in most other forums, and in any case, I don’t expect the OP to be a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/23 "2002-07-24T15:21:18Z")
I do think that being explicit regarding the target of the parody ruins the humour. However, **Sparc** , I think part of the problem might be that you are a denizen of GD, and are submerged in what is said there, whereas not everyone else is. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/24 "2002-07-24T15:35:54Z")
Fenris, > [@](#): > > But this is trolling. By definition. Trying to “provoke a reaction” is the whole point of trolling. (I’m not saying you’re a troll: one incident does not a troll make). But this is the standard, common-use definition of trolling, and that’s what I object to. I don’t want to have to do a search on every single post in the Pit or elsewhere to find out if the post is a troll or a real, honest-to-gosh meltdown. Might I suggest that there is possibly a grey zone. Had I for instance let my thread run when it became obvious that the majority wasn’t catching on, I would agree that it could be equated to trolling. As it was I had good reason to believe that although some people were being wooshed, some people were catching on, which would lead to that most would eventually. Note that I stepped down and posted clarification as soon as I saw that this wasn’t happening, mostly due to your post, which indicated that I was wasting people’s time by not letting them in on the parody. > [@](#): > > I tend to read and react, I generally don’t go through the entire thread before posting a response unless it’s a debate where the point might have been made. This is where we seem to disagree. As I said in my previous reply to dantheman, the use of the Pit varies, and I think we need to consider that fact. Parody is one of the known uses, albeit one of the rare ones. This warrants a certain measure of care in reading and posting. > [@](#): > > Ok, parody threads aren’t exactly the same thing as playing devil’s advocate, but they’re pretty damned close. No way. Playing devils advocate is a serious form of rhetoric that can easily be misconstrued as the real thing. Parody has the same nature in as much as that it _can_ be misunderstood, but it is miles off in purpose, intent and form. I wasn’t inviting to debate the awful and bigoted points I was making, I was demonstrating exactly how god-awful and despicable they are - a whole other animal. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/25 "2002-07-24T15:51:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > I just hate the idea of explaining parody. I mean, you either get it or you don’t. It’s either well written, or it’s not. > > The best parody’s are when you’re just not sure, it could go either way. Whaaa? I think you are confusing satire and parody. Absolutely, Thomas Swift should not have included a “this is a joke” postscript to A Modest Proposal, because he was writing a satire. But a parody is not a satire. A parody is a work of literature that imitates the style of another author or work for the purposes of ridicule or comic effect. A parody assumes the reader’s familiarity with the work or author being parodied. If the reader is unfamiliar, _the joke is lost._ The Wind Done Gone may stand alone as a work of literature (or it may not - I haven’t read it), but the point of the work is to turn Gone With the Wind on its head and lampoon the assumptions of the original piece. If people didn’t know about GWTW, TWDG loses most of its bite. Admittedly, I’m sure that nowhere in TWDG does the author say, “this is a parody of GWTW.” But the author didn’t have to - GWTW is part of popular culture. When someone parodies one of over 2 million posts on this board, there should be no assumption that readers have read the post being parodied. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/26 "2002-07-24T15:58:24Z")
> [@](#): > > So…it was sort of a social experiment? No. I believe it’s a question of how you define parody. Parody will obviously provoke a reaction. Then there is also the subtlety of humor involved. Parody isn’t good if it isn’t damned close to the real thing, but skewed as to having exactly the reverse effect. It needs to be so close as for it to almost be believable, but still absurd enough in its emulation of the original to differ. Inevitably some people will not get it at first, but as I said, if you let that go on forever, you’re being mean spirited PLUS failing in making the point intended. Further parody always has a point, which is to demonstrate how fucked up or untenable the original is, the reaction by those whooshed proves that. All that being said Sua and jjimm just made points that made me see a problem with my parody here examined. In my submersion in GD I think I took a little too much for granted that more people would get the parody without a blinking warning sign on it. That I appologize for. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![fallom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@fallom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fallom)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/27 "2002-07-24T16:06:42Z")
Wait a second… Ha! Made you scroll down to see this! Aren’t I funny? ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/28 "2002-07-24T17:25:47Z")
A last point of clarification from my side. In the event any of you think I was just trying to be funny, or show off my skills in parody; Humor might have been my weapon, but the task of using that weapon to attack the offensive crap posted by ElJeffe was taken on with dead serious intent. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/29 "2002-07-24T17:41:13Z")
**Sparc** : I’m in complete agreement with you that humor is a great weapon against buffoons like ElJeffe. All I’m saying is that without a link to the buffoon in question, it’s not effective. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/30 "2002-07-24T18:02:30Z")
let me chime in here. chime. This is a written medium. and, as such, in some ways easier for people to understand, and yet in other ways, much harder. We have an accurate rendition of the specific words some one actually used, without any _inflection_. Hence the use of smilies, or (ahem) _links_ in order to allow our true message to ring through. I’ve been around for over 2 years now. **and** have (mumble mumble, apparently no personal life) quite a few posts, however, recently, I posted something in a pit thread which was open to misinterpretation (my fault), and even people _who regularly knew me, have emailed me off the boards etc._ were at least briefly taken aback. Given that experience, I’d much rather have (as **Fenris** suggests) a link somewhere. **plus** let’s not forget that there’s newbies and visitors to this place who **will not have any frigging clue about your posting record** and will simply react to what you said. If your intent is **not** to intentionally mislead people, get them to react, then please, by all means, select your actions accordingly. If your intent **is** to allow people to falsely believe your post is your true opinion, then that’s trolling. Period. (and the above goes double for whoever that poster is who recently has come along and some folks insist that they’re posting as a parody, yet they’ve -to my knowledge - never acknowledged that) ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/31 "2002-07-24T18:34:23Z")
I am in need of help, desperate help. Everywhere I go, I think that I see trolls. I need to know once and for all form you, the smart and capable dopers, just what is a troll? You see, there have been several threads of late ([this one is a good example,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=127125), Another fine example is the pit thread about [taggert](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=126067) ) where outrageous things are being said, presumably to provoke a reaction. And then people start to get pissed when in steps the OP or his apologists to say no-no it _PARODY_. And this is the big point. There are people out there that actually believe outrageous, hateful things. If you post using their voice (but just joking, honest), you will start a pile on. Is that your point? Are you trying to make people mad? Are you getting some sort of hard-on by whooshing them? This critique also applies to the people who got the joke, and are now defending. This seems to me to be petty and small. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/32 "2002-07-24T19:33:07Z")
Oh Bollocks with it all! If I should ever again, against better judgment venture to parody something or someone I’ll put a friggin’ warning label at the beginning of the OP . [ol]**CAUTION CONTENTS MAY BE OFFENSIVE AND STINGING** This product has not been tested on an audience and may cause irritation and cross ligament damage in the sarcastically impaired or uninitiated reader.[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/33 "2002-07-24T19:38:24Z")
Don’t do that!! Its just fuel for sixteen more parody threads, and 37 more that parody those 16!!! Soon, parody threads will number in the millions, and their shear numbers will overwhelm us all, and then they gain sentience, and send cyborgs back in time to kill Sarah Conner…Doom!!! Doom!!! DOOM!!! ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/34 "2002-07-24T20:01:31Z")
Sparc, all people are asking for is a link to the original thread. You don’t have to warn us about your post. 🙂 Besides, I don’t get the impression that people are offended - and, as pointed out, you’re not the only one who’s done this recently. I’m only bitter because I fell for one of those things, when I should have known better. Still, a linky would have been oh-so-nice. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/35 "2002-07-24T20:13:57Z")
**Sparc** Once more: I thought your post was funny once I saw the original. Do what you think is best, but all I’m requesting is a link to the source so we can _all_ see why it’s funny, as opposed to only those GDizens who read the original getting it. **Sua** said it best: > [@](#): > > A parody assumes the reader’s familiarity with the work or author being parodied. \ > When someone parodies one of over 2 million posts on this board, there should be no assumption that readers have read the post being parodied. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/36 "2002-07-24T22:09:13Z")
Point somewhat taken Fenris. Glad you appreciated it in the end, and I’ll try to be more inclusive in the future. And kudos and respect to dan for being candid. Sparc And now this ‘disgruntled Europhile’ will just piss off into the dark and bitter ‘heart of wildest Euroland’, hunker down in front of his ‘flickering 50hz monitor, sadly built to European standards’ and temporarily sink back into the murky waters that is the quagmire of great debates while he searches himself a real ‘European message board to subscribe to’ where his humor and ire might be more readily received. [[?]](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2302102#post2302102) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/37 "2002-07-25T07:31:04Z")
Here’s my Official Judgement on it: Post a link to the thread or person you’re parodying. And make a note that it’s a link. Otherwise, it’s trolling, and it’s likely to get you warned and/or banned. Lynn Bodoni For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/38 "2002-07-25T14:31:18Z")
Of course, sufficiently obtuse threads which attack the parody by becoming the parody are seen as MPSIMSish _joke_ threads and get closed. _sigh_ I hate parody threads. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/39 "2002-07-25T17:42:57Z")
I read it all and the link. I still don’t get it. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parody-or-trolling/120549/40 "2002-07-25T18:58:01Z")
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