# Particle beam weapons v. Predator hellfire missiles **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 11, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453 "2012-10-11T20:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/21 "2012-10-12T15:06:10Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Until we can perfect the remote-controlled explosive spider-grenadroids. I expect that would actually be more feasible and way cheaper anyway. Please don’t. Then we will have to have a debate in GQ about the morality of remote-controlled explosive spider-grenadroid strikes. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/22 "2012-10-12T15:13:15Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Please don’t. Then we will have to have a debate in GQ about the morality of remote-controlled explosive spider-grenadroid strikes. Dammit, edit…GD ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/23 "2012-10-12T15:47:35Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Please don’t. Then we will have to have a debate in GQ about the morality of remote-controlled explosive spider-grenadroid strikes. ^Yeah, what he said. Your remote-controlled explosive spider-grenadroids are functionally just smaller drones, with the exact same ethical issues. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/24 "2012-10-12T16:02:00Z")
But less collateral damage. In fact, rather than exploding they can deliver a cyanide “bite.” Then it just reduces the argument to the more managable, “Should we be doing international assasinations?” ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/25 "2012-10-12T16:04:26Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > But less collateral damage. In fact, rather than exploding they can deliver a cyanide “bite.” > > Then it just reduces the argument to the more managable, “Should we be doing international assasinations?” Oh, I’d still rather see an explosion of some type…it could skitter up to the top of the target’s head, and activate a downwardly-pointing shaped charge mounted in its thorax. Mission accomplished, no chance of collateral damage…except for maybe getting splattered by the brains shooting out of his eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/26 "2012-10-12T16:58:04Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Great post. Does any of that change if the satellite is LEO (and you have to wait for it to pass overhead) instead of geostationary or is it still just as bad? I had it in LEO already. I assumed a pencil beam coming from the machine, so the spread was entirely due to the atmosphere and would be the same for any starting altitude. But, the pencil beam assumption would be considerably worse at geostationary altitude, so we would need to consider the tolerances on beam divergence way up there (which is why I assumed LEO to start with). > [@Half Man Half Wit](#): > > …how about gamma rays? The mean free path of a gamma ray in the atmosphere will only be a few hundred meters, with electron/position pair production the principle avenue for the gamma’s demise. As with the proton option, a tiny fraction of the gamma rays would survive all the way to the ground (perhaps 10[sup]-15[/sup] in this case, give or take a couple of powers). > [@gnoitall](#): > > a neutral pi meson accelerator Interesting sci-fi concept. I can see why the creator went with it, but unfortunately neutral pions don’t ignore matter. It’s true that they are so short-lived that you typically don’t pay any attention to their interactions with matter, but if you could magically make them stable, they would be just as bad as charged pions for penetrating the atmosphere, surviving only hundreds of meters before experiencing a strong interaction and obliterating into a spray of other things. On the lifetime side: the relativistic boost idea is tough to apply to neutral pions because their lifetime is only 10[sup]-16[/sup] seconds. Even if you could somehow accelerate these _neutral_ particles up to LHC energies, they’d still only travel 2 millimeters! ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/27 "2012-10-12T17:06:14Z")
> **[Why can’t we use lasers as ray guns?](https://www.straightdope.com/21344124/why-can-t-we-use-lasers-as-ray-guns)** ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/28 "2012-10-12T18:17:13Z")
If you are going to use an orbital particle beam as a weapon, it will work slightly better if you can convince your target to stand on a tall mountain, or to be flying in an airplane above most of the atmosphere when you fire at them. Still not a very effective idea. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/29 "2012-10-12T18:20:58Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > What about a kinetic impact weapon? Tungsten rods could probably be targeted from orbit with reasonable precision to do what you want. And if you have a bigger target a small asteroid dropped from orbit. This is my suggestion as well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453/30 "2012-10-12T22:11:55Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Traveller had an analogous concept: a neutral pi meson accelerator. Pions were supposed to pretty much ignore matter until they decay into a pair of gamma-energy photons. By calibrating the particle beam velocity, you adjust the decay time (relatavistically) to set the decay point of the particle beam inside your target. Ha; that’s cool. I actually came up with the same basic idea of a particle beam that decays-to-lethality inside the target independently (including timing it relativistically), but I didn’t think there were any real particles that conveniently had the right quality of decaying from nearly no interaction to something dangerous. (Checks); and apparently pi mesons don’t work either; too bad. Although the idea I came up with it for was for weapons firing up out of the atmosphere, not down into it; I was trying to think of a weapon that could work easily through atmosphere, and shoot as easily up as down. Something like that you could bury miles underground and fire as easily as from the surface. The real trick would be how to accelerate and aim a stream of particles that don’t interact with much of anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/particle-beam-weapons-v-predator-hellfire-missiles/637453.md?page=1)