# Partisan Gerrymandering - Rucho v. Common Cause **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139 "2019-06-06T19:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/61 "2019-06-29T16:45:58Z")
So, your advice is that we apply the power we are denied in order to obtain the power we deserve? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/62 "2019-06-29T17:00:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, your advice is that we apply the power we are denied in order to obtain the power we deserve? You are not denied the power. You simply need to overcome the disadvantage. Surely, if you are correct about what you assert, it should be easy to convince the people that you are right, and elect people who agree? And you are not denied the power in the state courts, are you? Don’t recall reading where gerrymandering affects state courts… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/63 "2019-06-30T13:38:04Z")
Ah, yes, Republican Poker. They get seven cards, we get five, all of ours are face up, and they get to draw twice. Your commitment to civic virtue and justice before the law is a beacon to us all. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/64 "2019-06-30T13:43:30Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Actually, goes back earlier than that. I did say “at least”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/65 "2019-06-30T18:31:46Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > You are not denied the power. You simply need to overcome the disadvantage. Surely, if you are correct about what you assert, it should be easy to convince the people that you are right, and elect people who agree? This kind of statement is so out of touch with the reality of human nature. You cling to the means with no care for the ends. Why would any party elected by this advantage choose to change it? You think their voters want it changed? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/66 "2019-07-01T20:59:19Z")
> [@nate](#): > > This kind of statement is so out of touch with the reality of human nature. You cling to the means with no care for the ends. Why would any party elected by this advantage choose to change it? You think their voters want it changed? You make the assumption that voters who are Republican are monolithic as to how they vote and who they vote for. Goodness, even in California that’s not a truism. There is still a substantial number of voters who will go one way or the other depending on who is running and what the issues are. I’m one of them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/67 "2019-07-02T00:53:55Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > You make the assumption that voters who are Republican are monolithic as to how they vote and who they vote for. Goodness, even in California that’s not a truism. There is still a substantial number of voters who will go one way or the other depending on who is running and what the issues are. I’m one of them. :rolleyes: And your type is accounted for in algorithms that draw district maps to favor a particular political party. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/68 "2019-07-02T12:48:37Z")
One of the pernicious effects of gerrymandering is that, once overcome by the victimized party, said party appears to be fearful of enacting legislation that would eliminate it, instead taking advantage of its newfound power to abuse it in the same manner. I realize that’s a huge generalization but it might explain why Democrats aren’t pushing electoral reform more strongly than they are. The American voter is the loser in all this. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/69 "2019-07-03T15:18:10Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > One of the pernicious effects of gerrymandering is that, once overcome by the victimized party, said party appears to be fearful of enacting legislation that would eliminate it, instead taking advantage of its newfound power to abuse it in the same manner. I realize that’s a huge generalization but it might explain why Democrats aren’t pushing electoral reform more strongly than they are. The American voter is the loser in all this. Democratic leaders in Illinois are [actually promising to push fairer districting](https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-gerrymandering-mayor-lightfoot-governor-pritzker-20190701-nhogyd5ql5bi7i7a74lwledivy-story.html) in a system that currently favors Democrats. I like this in principle but may hate it in practice, since I’m not aware of any effort by our neighbors in Wisconsin to fix their districts that massively favor Republicans. So if we (blue Illinoisans) do the right thing, we’re likely to reduce the number of Democrats we send to Congress, but there’s nothing to stop the red Wisconsinites from continuing to do the wrong thing and send an unrepresentative number of Republicans. This needs to be done at the federal level. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/70 "2019-07-03T16:28:37Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > You are not denied the power. You simply need to overcome the disadvantage. Surely, if you are correct about what you assert, it should be easy to convince the people that you are right, and elect people who agree? > > And you are not denied the power in the state courts, are you? Don’t recall reading where gerrymandering affects state courts… [Let me help you out with that, then](https://apnews.com/357e55b3c4ca4432b8a460521f9034ff): > [@](#): > > Gov. Kim Reynolds is transforming the Iowa Supreme Court from one that leaned left to a solidly conservative body, prompting concerns that it could erode past rulings on social issues. > > Reynolds already has made two appointments to the seven-member court, which now has a 5-2 Republican majority, and will get a third before here term ends in 2022 because of a mandatory retirement age of 72 for judges. If she runs and wins a second term, she will complete the conservative transformation. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/71 "2019-07-03T21:26:30Z")
Uh, how did she become Governor through gerrymandering? I’m curious as to how Iowa managed that. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/72 "2019-07-05T22:50:34Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Democratic leaders in Illinois are [actually promising to push fairer districting](https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-gerrymandering-mayor-lightfoot-governor-pritzker-20190701-nhogyd5ql5bi7i7a74lwledivy-story.html) in a system that currently favors Democrats. > > I like this in principle but may hate it in practice, since I’m not aware of any effort by our neighbors in Wisconsin to fix their districts that massively favor Republicans. So if we (blue Illinoisans) do the right thing, we’re likely to reduce the number of Democrats we send to Congress, but there’s nothing to stop the red Wisconsinites from continuing to do the wrong thing and send an unrepresentative number of Republicans. > > This needs to be done at the federal level. And since it won’t be, Democrats need to gerrymander the shit out of every blue state. If we just sit there and let the GOP screw us—help them even— while Republicans laugh, we deserve to be the butt of the joke. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/73 "2019-07-11T04:15:42Z")
How about this, Congress removes the requirement of congressional districts so that all of a state’s representatives are elected at-large. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/74 "2019-07-11T08:47:04Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Uh, how did she become Governor through gerrymandering? I’m curious as to how Iowa managed that. As a resident of Iowa, I can assure you that our governor was not elected via some nefarious gerrymandering. As Bo surely knows, the governor’s race is not limited to districts. The Iowa model for non partisan redistricting is copied by other states. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/75 "2019-07-11T12:22:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > How about this, Congress removes the requirement of congressional districts so that all of a state’s representatives are elected at-large. Yeah, that’s not gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/76 "2019-07-11T12:32:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > How about this, Congress removes the requirement of congressional districts so that all of a state’s representatives are elected at-large. That just means that almost every representative from each state will be from the same party. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/77 "2019-07-11T12:52:15Z")
Super Districts with multiple representatives and using Single Transferable Voting methods are very much a solution. But instead of saying “it will never happen,” a turn of phrase I despise, I’d rather say “we have our work cut out for us making this a reality.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/78 "2019-07-17T04:30:05Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > That just means that almost every representative from each state will be from the same party. Why do you say that. Suppose each voter can only vote for one candidate? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139/79 "2019-07-17T12:23:18Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Why do you say that. Suppose each voter can only vote for one candidate? Which is exactly how it’s supposed to work in multi-member districts. Though, in the case of a state like Iowa (barring an increase in the size of the House, something I think is way overdue), five Congresscritters statewide makes the state pretty much a single super district. Super districts pretty much cure gerrymandering and lopsided representation. But you need single transferable voting to fully accomplish an improved election process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partisan-gerrymandering-rucho-v-common-cause/835139.md?page=3)