# Partridge Family from hell at Cottonwood Arizona Walmart **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 24, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907 "2015-03-24T23:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/21 "2015-04-13T23:28:30Z")
“Hell’s Partridges” (band name) ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/22 "2015-04-14T00:16:15Z")
This family seems to have a \*lot \*of experience brawling with cops, judging from the video. Who even bothers to learn how to shake off a taser blast or pepper spray? ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/23 "2015-04-14T00:25:13Z")
busker? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/24 "2015-04-14T00:29:05Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > busker? A busker is someone who performs in the street hoping for tips. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/25 "2015-04-14T00:38:37Z")
I posted tis in the omnibus thread: > [@Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1721): > > I just watched the video of the Walmart brawl between the Gaver family and the police in Cottonwood. > > I was stunned, stunned that this went on for nearly 10 minutes. The lesson here is that white folks get a shitload of leeway and get to punch and kick and wrestle eight cops for what seems like forever. > > If this had been a black family, they would all have been dead within seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/26 "2015-04-14T06:49:00Z")
Michael Brown was not in a large group of people, though. The guy in North Carolina was alone. Has there ever been a large group of minorities pulling this nonsense? Maybe it’s because there were so many of them that the cops didn’t shoot right away. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/27 "2015-04-14T07:41:46Z")
> [@decentdiscourse](#): > > I find it very interesting that more people aren’t asking the obvious (to me) question: why are these people still standing? If this had been a minority band of whackos, all of them would be shot dead and with justification, except for the 11 year old. When you look at the blow-by-blow analysis narrated by the chief of police, you have to wonder why the easy trigger when minority perps are in the picture, but restraint almost to the point of officer fatality for this group? Starting at 17:54 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki-R0d7DIAE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki-R0d7DIAE) I can guarantee you’ll have the same questions I do after you watch that. You would have a point if any of the officers involved, or even this particular agency, had a history of gunning down minorities. Is that the case? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/28 "2015-04-14T12:57:17Z")
Agreed. I’m gonna bet that had the same scuffle with the same white perps taken place in any suburban (or especially any urban) area in the US, there’d have been shooting pretty darn quick. Not to say those same hypothetical (sub-)urban cops wouldn’t have been even quicker to shoot had the perps been black. That event on Cottonwood was probably the biggest outbreak of disorderly behavior that department had faced in the last 5 years. The complacent workers in the complacent department got their frog boiled slowly. But eventually they jumped. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/29 "2015-04-14T14:19:18Z")
Ah, the old “if there’s no smoking racism gun in this instance then there isn’t racism involved.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/30 "2015-04-14T14:45:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Ah, the old “if there’s no smoking racism gun in this instance then there isn’t racism involved.” I’m concerned you’re talking to me. Please clarify what you are trying to say to who? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/31 "2015-04-14T15:26:55Z")
I reject your and Scumpup’s suggestion that unless we can catch the Cottonwood police department in an overt act of racism that this incident is irrelevant to institutional and underlying racism in our society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/32 "2015-04-14T15:32:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I reject your and Scumpup’s suggestion that unless we can catch the Cottonwood police department in an overt act of racism that this incident is irrelevant to institutional and underlying racism in our society as a whole. I reject your suggestion that every law enforcement incident must be tied to racism in our society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/33 "2015-04-14T15:41:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I reject your suggestion that every law enforcement incident must be tied to racism in our society as a whole. Everything that happens in society is relevant to society as a whole in one way or another. The basic fact is that we live in a racist and white supremacist society. It’s much less so than 50 or 150 years ago, but it is still the case. It underlies every police interaction with nonwhites. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/34 "2015-04-14T16:09:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Everything that happens in society is relevant to society as a whole in one way or another. > > The. basic fact is that we live in a racist and white supremacist society. It’s much less so than 50 or 150 years ago, but it is still the case. It underlies every police interaction with nonwhites Everything is not significantly related to everything else. Your rather bizarre take-away point seems to be: When cops shoot minority people, it is because cops are racist; but when cops shoot white people, it is because cops are racist. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/35 "2015-04-14T16:35:38Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Your rather bizarre take-away point seems to be: When cops shoot minority people, it is because cops are racist; but when cops shoot white people, it is because cops are racist. But you see, he didn’t shoot the white people _fast_ enough to prove that he isn’t racist. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/36 "2015-04-14T20:23:57Z")
When cops as a whole kill blacks and Hispanics at over six times the rate that they kill whites, it’s not inherent institutional racism that has to be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/37 "2015-04-14T20:24:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When cops as a whole kill blacks and Hispanics at over six times the rate that they kill whites, it’s not inherent institutional racism that has to be proven. So all cops are guilty until proven innocent. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/38 "2015-04-14T20:56:00Z")
Guilt and innocence have no meaning in this context. Our society is racist. We know that for a fact. Our law enforcement institutions are racist. We know that for a fact. Every damn time someone looks into it, institutional racism is there. Every time someone exposes law enforcement behind the scenes, racism is there. This is not a matter of proving a criminal charge. This is a matter of knowing full well what society we live in but in any particular instance getting the vapors and being shocked I say shocked at the suggestion that there is racism going on here. The question of “is it racist” is long done and answered. The only important question is “how do we fix it.” Letting folks drag us back to “well, you can’t be sure it’s racist” every time serves only to prevent doing anything about it ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/39 "2015-04-14T21:08:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Our society is racist. We know that for a fact. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907/40 "2015-04-15T00:47:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When cops as a whole kill blacks and Hispanics at over six times the rate that they kill whites, it’s not inherent institutional racism that has to be proven. Ah! So the problem is that the cops didn’t shoot enough of these white buskers to meet your exacting standards? What number would be correct? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partridge-family-from-hell-at-cottonwood-arizona-walmart/715907.md?page=3)