# Parts of the Grand Canyon restricted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290 "2001-10-24T10:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Patricinus\_Scriblerus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Patricinus\_Scriblerus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patricinus_Scriblerus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/1 "2001-10-24T10:20:49Z")
I understand that the Grand Canyon is a National Park in the USA. Are there areas within the park that tourists are simply not allowed to go ? I was reading an atricle about a Prof. S.A.Jordan of the Smithsonian who was investigating some caves in the Grand Canyon backin in April 1909. Darn it if I can’t find it again. I have searched the web and have only come up with theories that there were Egyptian artifacts that were 3000-5000 years old discovered. The article suggested that these caves were in a restricted part of the park. Any ideas ? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/2 "2001-10-24T11:11:08Z")
[http://www.gci-net.com/users/v/vrartist/rumorfact.html](http://www.gci-net.com/users/v/vrartist/rumorfact.html) There are lots of rumors that the site is restricted. However, there are no indications of any restrictions on maps of the cave area. The Feds probably reason that the remoteness of the site makes it a good place to employ the black helicopter brigade. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/3 "2001-10-24T13:54:24Z")
> [@](#): > > . Are there areas within the park that tourists are simply not allowed to go ? Yes. Google, “Grand Canyon restricted areas”. [http://www.nps.gov/grca/publications/compendium.htm](http://www.nps.gov/grca/publications/compendium.htm) > [@](#): > > Compendium Of Designations, Closures, Use and Activity Restrictions, Permit Requirements And Other Regulations > > September 1998 > > In accordance with the delegated authority provided by regulations as published under Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations, Chapter 1, Parts 1 through 7, authorized by Title 16 United States Code, Section 3, the following regulatory provisions are established for the management, protection, and public use of Grand Canyon National Park. The following are the areas that are closed to the public, period. > [@](#): > > a) The following geographical areas and/or roads within Grand Canyon National Park are closed to public use or are restricted by specific activities and/or specific times for specific activities: > > Areas Closed To General Public Presence, Use, and Access: > General: > > All government and/or private housing areas, including but not limited to access roads, residences, outbuildings, yards, and pathways. This closure shall not apply to residents, guests of residents, or persons engaged in legitimate governmental activities or permitted business activities. > > The interior of all government and concession buildings except for designated public lobbies or public business areas. This closure shall not apply to persons in non-public areas who have been granted specific permission by the National Park Service or another authorized federal agency, the licensed concessionaire, or their representatives, or those who are under escort of employees who are acting within the scope of their employment. > South Rim District: > > Grand Canyon School and adjacent school grounds and parking areas. This closure shall not apply to persons engaged in legitimate school business or school sponsored/sanctioned activities. > > South Rim Helibase and Fire Compound, as defined by the fence line and/or the road and clear-cut tree line, including the Helibase, Firebase, Engine Bay/Fire Cache, and the Fire Administrative Office, and access road. > > Hopi Fire Tower and Access Road > South Rim Powder Magazine and Access Road > South Rim Sanitary Landfill and Access Road > South Rim Firearms Range > Southgate dirt parking area and access road. > Maricopa Point Endangered Plant Area > > Desert View District: > > Desert View Sewage Treatment Plant Complex and Access Road > Desert View Dry Dump and Access Road > Access Road to Grandview Fire Tower and Power Line Access Road > > Corridor District: > > Established “helispots” at Indian Gardens and Phantom Ranch, as defined by the marked perimeters of those facilities. > > Wilderness District: > > Hopi Salt Mines, extending from river mile 62 to river mile 62.5 on the southeast side of the Colorado River. > Maricopa Point Endangered Plan Area > Hance Mine (in Asbestos Canyon south of Hance Rapid) > Bass Mine (in Hakatai Canyon and the area immediately surrounding the mine tailings and waste rock areas) > Furnace Flats from 71.0 to mile 71.3 on the north side of the Colorado River. > Anasazi Bridge > > North Rim District: > > Lindberg Hill Dry Storage Area and Access Road > North Rim Sewage Treatment Plant Complex and Access Road Everything else in the (lengthy) document is just basic rules about wilderness backpacking, jetskis on the Colorado River, where you may and may not drive your ATVs, etc. But there’s this, relevant to the OP: > [@](#): > > Areas Restricted To Public Presence, Use, and Access By Permit Only: > General: > A valid permit issued by the Superintendent is required for all access to, use of, and presence within all caves and mines within Grand Canyon National Park. For purposes of this section, a cave is defined as, > > “Any naturally occurring void, cavity, recess, or system of interconnected passages beneath the surface of the earth or within a cliff or ledge, including any cave resource therein, and which is large enough to permit a person to enter, whether the entrance is excavated or naturally formed. Such term shall include any natural pit, sinkhole, or other feature that is an extension of a cave entrance or which is an integral part of the cave.” (Federal Cave Resources Protection Act of 1988). > > For management purposes and purposes of this section, Grand Canyon National Park extends this definition to include: > > “…natural features only if they contain a twighlight zone and a zone of perpetual darkness (i.e., Redwall Cavern is not a cave). In addition, artificial anthropogenic features (i.e., mine works) which comprise a twighlight zone and a zone of perpetual darkness will be managed as caves except more latitude will be given for mitigating hazards to human health and safety.” > > Permits required to satisfy this section may be applied for and/or obtained at the Backcountry Permits Office. Note that this doesn’t say anything about ancient Egyptian artifacts. But of course, the Feds aren’t gonna _tell_ you… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/4 "2001-10-24T16:54:36Z")
As you can tell yes there are places in the grand canyon that are restricted. I have lived outside of the park for a few years and I have been an avid hang glider for all of those years. I have seen many places that are restricted and even no fly zones for kiters. I have been down the Colorado countless times fishing and rafting, but I have to say the rumors about ancient Egyption stuff being found are simply that, rumors. There were native tribes that florished in that region 5 thousand years ago, they did indeed leave artifacts, old dwellings, and much lore, and most of the archaeological digs out there are restricted. They are restricted due to looters not to due to some underlying conspiracy to dig up egyption artifacts. interesting concept though. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/5 "2001-10-24T19:28:48Z")
As s side note, during the “government shutdown” a few years ago, the entire Grand Canyon was closed. We drove up and a ranger standing at the head of Bright Angel Trail (IIRC) told us “Sorry folks, park’s closed- moose out front should’ve told you.” Actually, he said that we could not enter the canyon from that trail or any other. We wound up going to Canyon de Chelle instead, which is (at least partially) on a reservation. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/6 "2001-10-24T20:35:35Z")
Looting and vandalism of ancient archaeological sites in the US is a serious, tragic problem. [Painted Rock vandalism](http://www.indianz.com/SmokeSignals/Headlines/showfull.asp?ID=edu/5212001-3) [Petrified Forest grave robbing](http://www.indianz.com/SmokeSignals/Headlines/showfull.asp?ID=edu/4162001-3) [Chief Seattle’s grave defaced](http://www.indianz.com/SmokeSignals/Headlines/showfull.asp?ID=tc/582001-3) And so on. The most recent incident was particularly galling–an entire rock-painting destroyed–but unfortunately I can’t find the details anymore. Endangered sites are often put under the protection of the Department of Interior, either through the National Park Service or a number of other, less well known offices. The problem is that Interior can’t afford to protect these remote sites 24-7 any more than the states or Indian tribes could before them. Which finally brings me to the OP, sort of. One solution has been to simply “disappear” the site. I know of at least one example where a wonderfully preserved slate-rock village was never identified on maps and has no signs leading up to it. If you find it, you might chance upon a single ranger making a weekly check to see if vandals and looters have found the place yet. (I’ve done a good job forgetting even the name of the place, so don’t ask me where it is.) That’s the best they can do with an ever-expanding list of sites to protect and an ever-shrinking budget. This sort of practice is not confined simply to ancient archaeological and historical sites. Civil War buffs visiting the Wilderness battlefield in Virginia may be interested to know that asking a park ranger about the [Lacy House](http://www.fowb.org/) will likely win them a free parking permit to an otherwise unadvertised section of the battlefield and a visit to the burial site of Stonewall Jackson’s arm (it had been coincidentally laid to rest there the year before the Wilderness battle). Staffing and budgetary constraints prevent it from being actively managed, so the site’s existence is downplayed and only the intensely interested are given the opportunity to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Hombre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecb155/32.png) [@Hombre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hombre)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/7 "2001-10-24T21:28:24Z")
I’ll try to shed some light on the OP _in general_. **Patricinus Scriblerus** seems to think it’s unusual for a national park to have restricted areas. Actually this is quite common. Just because lands have been designated ‘National’ , ‘Park’, etc does not mean that they are free from rules and regs. This is true at city, state and national levels including national forests. Further, as stated by others here, it is unlawful to disturb sites of an historical nature. This is also common and can fall under the heading of a a federal law. The Egyption aspect makes this seem suspicious (to some), but in general, most caves in national parks are off limits. Indeed, parks with no known caves have this restriction. This is a blanket policy designed to keep you out of any historical sites the authorities might not have been discovered yet. And I believe it’s a good policy. As **Sofa King** points out, sites, pictographs, etc are being removed from maps as they are a guide for looters. However, lesser known sites (now classified as ‘class 2’) and rock art can be pointed out to you by park rangers _if_ you have knowledge of and can describe said sites/art, at their discression. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parts-of-the-grand-canyon-restricted/89290/8 "2001-10-25T03:49:01Z")
Not to hijack, but along the lines of parks not being entirely green and having free access - in Canadian federal and provincial parks, you can find a full spectrum of industries happening all at once. The land may be a park, but it is allocated to many different uses such as recreational (ATV & 4WD areas, hiking, climbing, horseback riding, some of which may overlap or not), forestry, mining, tourism, research/archeology sites, grazing leases, and so on. Access to all these sites can be completely closed off to anyone “they” say. Ever been to Banff? Even when I was in K-Country this summer there were within a couple square miles of empty looking forest: dirt bikes and 4WDs… buzzing around a cattle lease… that had clear-cuts on the hills around it… through which flowed a trout stream containing endangered bull trout… which I was doing some work on for the government… with a Shell refinery basically across the road behind a hill; all of it legit :rolleyes:. Don’t know if it’s the same in the US, could be.