Certainly there is other work that also benefits but wouldn’t it be refreshing to see conservatives and liberals working together to benefit others?
May I ask a few questions about the program?
Where do women come from? Do they seek you out?
Does your program advise people to definitely* not *have an abortion or simply offer support for mothers who wants their child but has concerns about their abilities and resources?
Where does the funding come from? Does the program directly provide funds for those in need or connect them to other programs?
All three of my children were unplanned as I was. They are all wonderful adults now making contributions to society. My oldest daughter is a struggling single Mom who opted not to have an abortion. It isn’t easy but she and my granddaughter are doing fine. My step daugter decided to have her unplanned child and gave it up for adoption. Her Mom and the adopting parents were all present at the delivery. They get photos and updates on a regular basis. It’s a beautiful thing IMHO.
The mother of my youngest daughter and I discussed abortion at the time and she decided she couldn’t and I honored her choice. Our daughter just graduated college and a real joy and a tremendous talent.
All that being said , as scotandrsn pointed out, there are plenty of children who are in need right now. I admire your work. I think what pro choice folks object to are those who want to make that choice illegal while not doing enough to care for the children who come into the world. Personally I object to the terms. I consider myself pro choice and pro life. That’s why the book, “Party of Death” is inflammatory and insulting just as liberals insinuating that all conservatives are hypocrites would be.
Folks-
I started this thread to discuss the fellow’s book. I appreciate all the comments on it, and I may buy it when I get back to the US.
I did not mean to start an abortion debate. It is not amiable to discussion, each of us must make a personal decision. While you are certainly free to talk about this, I wanted to apologize for stirring up emotions. That was certainly not my intent.
But, with all due respect, we’re not talking about whether or not it’s acceptable to you. We’re talking about what would make pregnant women prefer not to keep their pregnancy, and this is a legitimate opinion in that regard.
I wouldn’t argue with this. I actually feel that adoption gets a bum rap in our culture. Many birth mothers, as you point out, think it’s emotionally easier (and it is certainly physically easier) to get an abortion than have a baby and give it away. Many people who want babies spend tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments so that they can have their “own” babies. Many, many of the news stories you hear about adoption are negative…children in the foster system with terrible social problems that people don’t feel equipped to handle, babies born with all kinds of health problems, children taken away from their adoptive parents on bizarre technicalities, some years after the adoption was finalized. It’s not good.
And what evidence to you have that this isn’t so? At least I have the anecdotal evidence.
Thank you.
Yes. It is about choice. If a woman’s only feasible option is abortion, what kind of a choice is that? A pretty poor one, IMO.
You’d be surprised at how many of these people might turn out to be perfectly fine citizens who contribute to the world. I have a friend who grew up in an orphanage…a real orphanage, run by nuns. The kind that are supposed to be dehumanizing. She is a terrific person. She loves the people who raised her, even if she didn’t have a traditional “family.” Is she not worth having around because her parents died when she was 6, far past the age of being “adoptable?”
And in regards to social programs, I am not against them. I am against ones that are run in inefficent, wasteful, destructive manners.
Getting back to the book “Party of Death,” this is one of his major points regarding abortion. They have human DNA. They are not different from us. Regarding the retarded, I too believe that the justification for abortion on the grounds that the fetus isn’t a person is just inches away from justifying euthanizing all kinds of people because they don’t fit our defintion of what a person should be. Peter Singer, the famous ethicist from Princeton has already made a case for doing away with severely disabled people.
This is what bugs me the most. It seems to be beyond the ability of some people to understand that there are people who sincerely, genuinely, believe these unborn babies are…PEOPLE! And that we want to protect them as such. Statements such as this one by volvelle (speaking on the same subject, but in another thread):
These reasons are similar to the ones that scotandrsn listed. Seems to me that most of these are problems that can be solved in ways other than having an abortion, and your statistics do not show how many of these women would rather NOT have an abortion, if they were able to solve those problems.
There is a quite vast distance between a small bundle of cells and a retarded person. If anything, that you would compare the two and believe equivalency disgusts me, especially coming from a person who claims to care more for life.
The bolded part, in itself, assumes “facts” not in evidence: you’re doing the same thing other people on both sides are doing. While it’s true that it’s not very discussable, if fewer people would assume that a fetus either obviously is alive or is not (and thus can be restricted to an entirely personal decision,) it might be a more viable (heh) topic.
Yes, it really would be great. I have to say that the deafening silence towards this program towards liberals in my parish has really left a bad taste in my mouth. If people REALLY cared about choice, it seems to me they would help to give women real choices.
I am not too involved with this part of it, but I will try to answer your questions. I believe they are generally referred to us by some other social-service organizatin.
Well, I’m sure you realize that as a Catholic organization, our mission is to help people who want to find an alternative to abortion if they can, thereby hopefully preventing abortions and bringing babies into the world.
Both. We fundraise as well as take donated items to help the mothers, but we also hook them up with the appropriate social programs, such as WIC and things like that.
It’s a Catholic, pro-life organisation, and you’re wondering why there aren’t many liberals volunteering? By the same token, I could be horrified at the great lack of Catholic or pro-life people working in an abortion clinic; the numbers really aren’t likely to be high, now, are they? It’d be against their own personal idealogy.
OK, IN MY OPINION, it can only be considered legitimate “self-defense” if you are in danger of dying. And, IN MY OPINION, this is reasonable justification for abortion.
That’s fair, i’m sure i’d feel the same way, if I had your views. Actually, “small bundle of cells” is an accurate description; whether or not you ascribe a soul or consciousness to a baby/foetus/whatever in that position, it is without a doubt a small bundle of cells. Humans are a large, complex bundle of cells. These are, at the least, facts.
If I may, I’d like to understand your position (since there can be so many); at what point, to you, does life begin? Fertilisation?
If you read the thread, I was talking about people in my parish who are self described as being Catholic AND pro-life, but who also are self described as being liberals. They do not volunteer. We have many requests in the parish bulletin for volunteers, and they never, ever do. They volunteer for the anti-war groups, which is great. But they do not volunteer to help these mothers.
And, additionally, my point was that if liberals care so much about women’s choice that they work tirelessly to be sure that abortion remains legal, maybe they should also work tirelessly to help the women who CHOOSE to keep their babies. And I don’t mean voting for Democrats who create social programs. I mean REALLY HELPING women in THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD who need and want help.
