# Partying like it's 1859: let's break up families just like we did in the slave days! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965 "2018-05-28T14:27:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/41 "2018-05-29T13:37:13Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > They can work, and they’ve already shown the brains and initiative needed to get there. You won’t be supporting them: like every other person who’s willing and able, they will be doing their best to support the dead-wood part of their new society. Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/42 "2018-05-29T15:31:57Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’m not a big fan of illegal immigration or even granting asylum to huge numbers of people because I just don’t think in the long-term we will be able to support all of them, and I don’t think it’s really our job to take care of the rest of the world. Support them ? DUDE. You’re living in the richest, most spendiferous, most wasteful country on Og’s green Earth. There’s 300 million of you (that’s less than half a Europe) sitting on 10M square kms (that’s two Europes). I think there’s a smidge of room if y’all’d squeeze a little :rolleyes: But more importantly : no country, clan, group, tribe or dynasty in the history of the world has done worse with more people in it. Not once, not ever. Immigration, no matter where from or in what conditions, is always a strict positive in the long run. And I’m not talking about cultural this and that or a rich tapestry of multiethnic yaddayadda. I’m not being all liberal about it. Nobody is asking you to _support_ them. They support themselves, thankyouverymuch. And you ! People, even poor people who come from “shithole countries” to “steal our jobs” pay taxes, direct and local even when they don’t earn enough to pay actual taxes. They create jobs as well, because they need homes, police, firefighters, trucks made to put the mobile taco grill in ; and so on and so forth. They serve in the armed forces. They build shit. They’re always, always, ALWAYS a net positive on the economy. Everywhere, throughout history. Plus down the line they create fusion cuisine, and that’s awesome. Viet-Cajun shrimp in New Orleans ? I so, SO wanna taste that shit before I die. Furthermore, it’s all nice and all to think you (and I) can loot the rest of the world for all it’s worth, then turn around and declare it’s not our problem, not our job to take care of them ; but the world has been growing smaller and smaller ever since man found you could sit on top of a horse and the stupid animal wouldn’t kill you in return. At some point, “Around The World in 80 days” used to be far fetched fiction. Today I can fly to the antipodes in less than one day. And there’s no such thing as a border as seen from space. Your country and mine have, over the centuries, looted and pillaged the rest of the world for our benefit. We have created a hostile, unequal, unfair socio-economic system which we are dead set on perpetuating, by force if need be. We have colonized and strong armed, we have cliented and banana republiced, we have subjugated and corrupted, we have influenced and revolutionized. Your country specifically has, in recent years, blown two countries to very fine smithereens, fostered a death cult that has spread misery and desolation beyond imagination, to say nothing on the effect you (and we) have had on the climate (and it’s not nothing, and the first waves of climate refugees are already on their way). Now I ask you this : would you rather Joe Syrian be slinging burgers at Mickey Dees or driving a cab ; or working on detonators and homemade explosives because he’s seen one too many members of his family get blown up by drones ? Would you rather his kids get bad grades in our decaying school systems, or in a madrassa ? Would you rather Jesus Mexican pick your lettuce for 10 cents on the dollar, or process cocaine back home ? Would you rather they all learn about democracy and the rule of law living among us, or would you rather they support yet another wave of violent strongmen, religious nutters, corrupt kleptocrats and so on ? The bottomline is : you _have_ to care about the rest of the world. Because brother, it cares about you. Not in a good way. And what goes around, comes around. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/43 "2018-05-29T15:41:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I guess everybody’s heard by now that the Trump Administration is separating children - even as young as just over one year old - from their parents when they try to cross into the U.S. > > And of course, Trump’s [blaming it on the Dems](https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1000382896602058752), because that’s what he does. (He’s even demanding that people pressure the Dems to end the law forcing these separations. All I can figure is that while the GOP-controlled House has passed a bill ending the law, the Dems are filibustering it in the Senate. (WHY WON’T THE FAKE NEWS MEDIA REPORT ON THE DEMOCRATIC FILIBUSTER?! Please excuse the sarcasm.) > > Of course, he’s lying every which way. It’s his Administration’s policy, there is no law to repeal, they’re just doing it because they’re cruel and they can. > > I don’t know if this qualifies as a crime against humanity, but it’s the sort of thing we used to take in refugees for if other countries were practicing such abuses. AFAIAC, everyone enabling this horrible policy should be frog-marched to The Hague to stand trial. Not only what you said, but it looks like they fucking LOST the children. Somehow. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/44 "2018-05-29T15:43:38Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > America, 1858: Black parents and children are forcibly separated. > America, 2018: Brown parents and children are forcibly separated. > > All I can say is, the next time the Dems are in charge, I don’t want to hear any “look forward, not back” crap. There’d better be a reckoning this time. There won’t be. And that fact disgusts me. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/45 "2018-05-29T16:06:33Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Not only what you said, but it looks like they fucking LOST the children. Somehow. No they haven’t. [Different set of kids](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/us/trump-immigrant-children-lost.html). Read that thread! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/46 "2018-05-29T16:22:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > DUDE… Well ranted, **Kobal**. I couldn’t agree more… ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/47 "2018-05-29T16:50:29Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Well ranted, **Kobal**. I couldn’t agree more… Outstanding post. Word. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/48 "2018-05-29T18:14:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Support them ? DUDE. You’re living in the richest, most spendiferous, most wasteful country on Og’s green Earth. There’s 300 million of you (that’s less than half a Europe) sitting on 10M square kms (that’s two Europes). I think there’s a smidge of room if y’all’d squeeze a little :rolleyes: Well, I dunno, a lot of that space is shit like Nebraska or Montana. Who the fuck wants to live in Montana? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/49 "2018-05-29T18:18:50Z")
HHS Deputy Secretary Eric Hargan claims the kids aren’t lost, their sponsors just haven’t replied to the agency’s questions. > **[Missing Undocumented Children Are Not 'Lost,' HHS Says](https://www.newsweek.com/missing-1500-undocumented-children-are-not-actually-lost-hhs-official-says-947320)** > > "This is a classic example of the adage 'No good deed goes unpunished,'" Health and Human Services Deputy Secretary Eric Hargan said. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/50 "2018-05-29T20:11:32Z")
There are two distinct issues, as **Bricker** points out. One is that kids that arrive alone aren’t followed all that closely after being placed with a host family. While there may be some issues (I think I read that some of those kids were forced to work on an egg farm or something), this is not really a big problem, and them getting lost in the system may be beneficial if their host families are themselves undocumented. That’s not what this thread was meant to be about, as far as I can tell. Instead, there’s the second issue, which is horrific. Asylum seekers arriving at the border are having their kids taken from them (put where?) and then being turned back? Or, put in detention themselves? This is a new policy enacted by Trump and Sessions, apparently to discourage people coming here looking for asylum. Then, Trump promptly blamed the Democrats for this policy that his administration put in place. Anyway, this is really an awful, terrible, very bad thing. The first issue is mostly debunked, and I’d hate to see us fall for that somewhat fake news. The second issue is truly disturbing. **Bricker** ’s list is basically right on. We should not be conflating these two issues because the first one may not be an issue at all, while the second one seems nightmarish and true. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/51 "2018-05-29T20:28:42Z")
Here’s what I don’t get. Trump literally just sits there and says “Gosh this is all very terrible and it’s just so awful, and I’d love to do something about it, but it’s the Democrats’ fault”. And then … what? Everybody is just good with that? No one else (Senate, Congress, DOJ, Ninth Fucking Circuit Court of Human Decency) can stand up and stop it? It’s cartoonish, supervillain level behaviour, and I can’t believe it got past the point of even being suggested, much less actually being enacted. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/52 "2018-05-29T22:13:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, I dunno, a lot of that space is shit like Nebraska or Montana. Who the fuck wants to live in Montana? When you’ve been living out of a bombed out crater in Raqqa, I figure even Detroit must look homely. Well, it looks a lot like home at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/53 "2018-05-30T00:02:19Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > There are two distinct issues, as **Bricker** points out. One is that kids that arrive alone aren’t followed all that closely after being placed with a host family. While there may be some issues (I think I read that some of those kids were forced to work on an egg farm or something), this is not really a big problem, and them getting lost in the system may be beneficial if their host families are themselves undocumented. > > That’s not what this thread was meant to be about, as far as I can tell. > > Instead, there’s the second issue, which is horrific. Asylum seekers arriving at the border are having their kids taken from them (put where?) and then being turned back? Or, put in detention themselves? This is a new policy enacted by Trump and Sessions, apparently to discourage people coming here looking for asylum. Then, Trump promptly blamed the Democrats for this policy that his administration put in place. > > Anyway, this is really an awful, terrible, very bad thing. The first issue is mostly debunked, and I’d hate to see us fall for that somewhat fake news. The second issue is truly disturbing. > > **Bricker** ’s list is basically right on. We should not be conflating these two issues because the first one may not be an issue at all, while the second one seems nightmarish and true. [Precisely.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/us/trump-immigrant-children-lost.html) First of all, having been involved in getting an unaccompanied minor released to her parents a couple of years ago, I can tell you that her parents were required to provide identification and their child’s birth certificate to prove the relationship. They were also required to provide their home address and a list of everyone residing there, and their relationships to everyone in the household. If you were undocumented and had to provide that information and documentation to the Feds in order to claim your child, wouldn’t you claim your child and then go AWOL? Before sharing all these memes, I ask that you think about what purpose is served by all these rumors (and they are largely just rumors and wild speculation, except for the handful of children who were apparently forced to work on an egg farm, which is likely not any worse than what they were doing in their home countries, to be honest). Do we really want the Feds, who have already stated that they will arrest any undocumented person they encounter in the course of their daily business, going hunting for kids who are in most cases living with their parents or close family members? Many of whom are undocumented? **Eva Luna,** Immigration Paralegal P.S. The issue of separating children from their parents at the border is disgusting, and is a very recent development completely separate from the issue of unaccompanied minors, as has already been pointed out. If you want to get your panties in a bunch about an immigration issue, that’s a good one, but there is certainly no shortage of immigration issues to get incensed about these days. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/54 "2018-05-30T10:19:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > When you’ve been living out of a bombed out crater in Raqqa, I figure even Detroit must look homely. Well, it looks a lot like home at any rate. The soundtrack is a lot less noisy. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/55 "2018-05-30T15:08:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > All I can say is, the next time the Dems are in charge, I don’t want to hear any “look forward, not back” crap. There’d better be a reckoning this time. Thanks for this, I needed a good laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Monimonika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Monimonika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monimonika)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/56 "2018-05-31T11:51:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > All I can figure is that while the GOP-controlled House has passed a bill ending the law, the Dems are filibustering it in the Senate. (WHY WON’T THE FAKE NEWS MEDIA REPORT ON THE DEMOCRATIC FILIBUSTER?! Please excuse the sarcasm.) I tried looking up about this filibuster, but am getting very vague results that don’t spell out what is being filibustered (or refer to some old filibuster from months/years ago). What bill was passed in the House regarding this issue? Anyone with details and/or summary, please? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/57 "2018-05-31T12:18:51Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Well ranted, **Kobal**. I couldn’t agree more… +1 here. If only more Americans could see the truth in that section: > [@](#): > > Now I ask you this : would you rather Joe Syrian be slinging burgers at Mickey Dees or driving a cab ; or working on detonators and homemade explosives because he’s seen one too many members of his family get blown up by drones ? Would you rather his kids get bad grades in our decaying school systems, or in a madrassa ? Would you rather Jesus Mexican pick your lettuce for 10 cents on the dollar, or process cocaine back home ? Would you rather they all learn about democracy and the rule of law living among us, or would you rather they support yet another wave of violent strongmen, religious nutters, corrupt kleptocrats and so on ? Too many of us would prefer that Jesus Mexican stays in Mexico processing cocaine as long as we don’t have to have the “other” amongst us. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/58 "2018-05-31T14:17:46Z")
> [@Monimonika](#): > > I tried looking up about this filibuster, but am getting very vague results that don’t spell out what is being filibustered (or refer to some old filibuster from months/years ago). What bill was passed in the House regarding this issue? Anyone with details and/or summary, please? There is no such filibuster, as there is no such bill. Because for all their bullshit yapping, House Republicans will never pass one. It’s patently not the dems getting in the way. I like **RTFirefly** ’s wit the way I like my romantic partners: dry and lacerating. . ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/59 "2018-05-31T21:34:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But more importantly : no country, clan, group, tribe or dynasty in the history of the world has done worse with more people in it. Not once, not ever. Immigration, no matter where from or in what conditions, is always a strict positive in the long run. And I’m not talking about cultural this and that or a rich tapestry of multiethnic yaddayadda. I’m not being all liberal about it. Nobody is asking you to _support_ them. They support themselves, thankyouverymuch. And you ! People, even poor people who come from “shithole countries” to “steal our jobs” pay taxes, direct and local even when they don’t earn enough to pay actual taxes. They create jobs as well, because they need homes, police, firefighters, trucks made to put the mobile taco grill in ; and so on and so forth. They serve in the armed forces. They build shit. They’re always, always, ALWAYS a net positive on the economy. Everywhere, throughout history. How did the Western Roman Empire find unrestricted immigration? Did letting in all those Visigoths work out well for them economically? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965/60 "2018-05-31T23:28:09Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > How did the Western Roman Empire find unrestricted immigration? Did letting in all those Visigoths work out well for them economically? Yup, totally comparable. Not reductionist and childishly simplistic at all. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/partying-like-its-1859-lets-break-up-families-just-like-we-did-in-the-slave-days/814965.md?page=4)