# Passenger plane crashes near DC-area’s Reagan Airport {Jan 29, 2025} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [January 30, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602 "2025-01-30T03:13:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/203 "2025-02-08T16:05:23Z")
You don’t understand, they’re rich (or are temporarily displaced from being rich), male, and white. Rules and laws don’t apply to _them_. Even Newton’s laws aren’t worth a fig. (Not enough rolleyes in the world) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/204 "2025-02-08T16:27:43Z")
Once the poors stop flying, the people who deserve to have private luxury jets won’t need any kind of ATC. If you don’t have traffic, you don’t need traffic control. Besides, what kind of self-respecting pigopolist oligarch lets a mere bureaucrat tell him where he can fly his plane? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/205 "2025-02-11T05:30:07Z")
I’m not saying there have been a lot of plane crashes and collisions since a new US pres came in, but it’s an odd trend I’m noticing. > **[1 dead, 4 injured after jets collide at Scottsdale Airport](https://abcnews.go.com/US/2-jets-collide-scottsdale-airport/story?id=118670343)** > > A Learjet 35A veered off the runway after landing at Scottsdale Airport and crashed into a Gulfstream 2100 business jet, according to the FAA. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/206 "2025-02-11T08:45:37Z")
It’s more an awareness of the problem. Airplane accidents do occur over time and right now they’re getting press. Which is not to say the system is without problems. ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/207 "2025-02-11T17:09:29Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > pigopolist oligarch my new favorite description of he-who-must-not-be-named ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/208 "2025-02-11T17:30:59Z")
It’s like one of those long scientific names that most people commonly refer to by something shorter, in this case, just the first three letters. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/209 "2025-02-12T04:19:43Z")
Not only was the Learjet owned by one Vince Neil of Motley Crue (although he was not aboard), the person who died was a 78-year-old pilot! I didn’t know people could fly at that age. > **[Crew member killed when small jet owned by Vince Neil crashes into plane upon...](https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/10/us/scottsdale-arizona-plane-crash/index.html)** > > One person is dead and several were injured after a small business jet crashed into a parked plane as it arrived at Scottsdale Airport in Arizona, just east of Phoenix, on Monday afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/210 "2025-02-12T04:30:24Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I didn’t know people could fly at that age. My uncle was a private pilot for most of his adult life; he owned a small general aviation plane, and continued to fly, into his early 80s. My recollection is that he had to take regular physical exams in order to keep his medical certification, and regularly take tests to prove that he was still capable of safely flying. FWIW, Harrison Ford is 82, and is still an active pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/211 "2025-02-12T04:30:31Z")
Bob Hoover was still flying air shows at 77. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/212 "2025-02-12T16:34:05Z")
Bill Anders, former Apollo astronaut, died last year when he crashed his T-34 Mentor into Puget Sound trying to do a loop at low altitude. He was 90. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/213 "2025-02-12T19:58:01Z")
US law currently requires US scheduled airline pilots to retire at age 65. Other forms of professional or hobbyist pilots can fly as long as they can pass a medical exam performed by a private MD with an FAA “license” to perform medicals. Those folks come in two flavors: ones who examine you diligently and give an honest pronouncement based on the FAA standards versus your condition. And those who examine your money carefully to see if it has enough of the right pictures of the right presidents on it, and if so, sign you off. That’s an exaggeration, but only a small one. These latter sorts are well-known in the pilot community and are well sought-after. Many retired airline pilots transition into flying bizjets. And many career bizjet pilots stay in the biz to pretty late in life. Some decent fraction of the elderly pilots are hazardously deaf, senile, or complacent. Giving up the $200-500K/yr for not very hard work can be a hard sell to somebody with 3 ex-wives to pay for and little assets left. Or even to somebody with no ex-wives but also no life outside of work. In the instant mishap at Scottsdale, I doubt Yeager in his prime could have affected the outcome once the left main gear folded for whatever random reason. So I’m explicitly _not_ suggesting pilot age had any bearing on this event. But if I had to hazard a guess, I’d bet that 78yo was a less than stellar performer on account of age. Now matter how Yeagertastic he may have been in his prime. Who had the bad (good?) luck to be handed a flat insoluble problem that was over in 4 seconds flat. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/214 "2025-02-13T14:47:11Z")
A non-paywalled Washington Post repost: > Airline pilots received more than 100 cockpit warnings over the past decade that they were in danger of a midair collision with a helicopter near Reagan National Airport, according to flight-tracking and government incident data, a record of repeated risks compiled by air traffic controllers before the Jan. 29 crash that killed 67 people. > > A Washington Post examination of the records reveals the potential for an airborne collision was more frequent near the airport than has been previously disclosed. Each of the incidents reviewed by The Post triggered an automated cockpit warning advising airliner pilots to take action to avoid a collision — causing them in many cases to abort landings or change flight paths. **Pilots got 100 collision warnings for helicopters near National in past decade** [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/02/13/dca-airport-crash-warnings-helicopters-airliner/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/02/13/dca-airport-crash-warnings-helicopters-airliner/) > [@LSLGuy](#): > > once the left main gear folded for whatever random reason. There is a statement in another forum, although no attribution “The aircraft had previously suffered a hard landing incident, which caused among other things, a blown tire and damaged wheel. In the accident yesterday, the same gear appears to have separated from the aircraft on the runway”–which suggests the previous repairs may have been inadequate. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/215 "2025-02-13T17:03:00Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > FWIW, Harrison Ford is 82, and is still an active pilot. Not the most reassuring example you could come up with. > **[How Many Plane Crashes Has Harrison Ford Had?](https://simpleflying.com/harrison-ford-plane-crashes-history/)** > > The actor had been involved in numerous incidents in the last 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/216 "2025-02-13T17:04:04Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Not the most reassuring example you could come up with. Yeah, I know, but he’s kept his license, and is (obviously) a well-known senior-citizen pilot. _Should_ he still be flying? I’m not sure, but the answer to “_can_ someone of his age still be a licensed pilot?” is “yes.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/217 "2025-02-13T19:54:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Not only was the Learjet owned by one Vince Neil of Motley Crue (although he was not aboard), the person who died was a 78-year-old pilot! I didn’t know people could fly at that age. Although retirement from the _airlines_ is mandatory at age 65 in the US pilots are permitted to continue to fly so long as they can pass the required physical standards. I personally knew a pilot who was still flying as a commercial pilot at the age of 96, albeit with some restrictions (her students at that point were required to be licensed pilots in and of themselves, so could no longer take up complete novices as an instructor). I have heard of people flying as private pilots at ages greater than 100. Pilots with triple digit ages do have to have flight physicals more often than us mere mortals but, as I said, as long as they can pass the required standards they can keep flying. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/218 "2025-02-14T18:01:29Z")
**3D analysis shows how helicopter pilots could have mixed up jets in DCA crash** [Non-paywalled repost of Washington Post article] > Aviation experts have since raised the possibility that, after being [alerted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2025/01/31/audio-air-traffic-control-dc-plane-crash/) by air traffic [controllers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/30/dc-plane-crash-helicopter-recovery-no-survivors-potomac-river/) to the presence of the jet, the helicopter crew might have mistaken that plane for another incoming jet in the distance. > > To analyze this theory, The Washington Post made a 3D model, using [flight data](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/30/videos-photos-dc-plane-crash-potomac-river/) and air traffic control transmissions, and conducted interviews with five former Black Hawk pilots to recreate the view the crew likely had from inside the helicopter cockpit. > > Our examination shows how the American Airlines jet and the second plane, though separated by miles, would have appeared close to one another near the horizon and the helicopter crew could have confused the two jets when the tower first warned of incoming air traffic. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/public-safety-and-emergencies/health-and-safety-alerts/3d-analysis-shows-how-helicopter-pilots-could-have-mixed-up-jets-in-dca-crash/ar-AA1z2Hd7](https://www.msn.com/en-us/public-safety-and-emergencies/health-and-safety-alerts/3d-analysis-shows-how-helicopter-pilots-could-have-mixed-up-jets-in-dca-crash/ar-AA1z2Hd7) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/219 "2025-02-14T21:51:19Z")
The NTSB had a media briefing today, here is the transcript: > **[Feb.14.2025\_Briefing\_Mid-air\_Collision%20near%20DCA.pdf](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/Feb.14.2025_Briefing_Mid-air_Collision%20near%20DCA.pdf)** > > 96.39 KB Some points: > CVR data from the Blackhawk indicated that the portion of the transmission stating the CRJ was “circling” may not have been received by the Blackhawk crew. We hear the word “circling” in ATC communications, but we do not hear the word “circling on the CVR of the Blackhawk. The Recorders Group is evaluating this. > At 8:47:42, or 17 seconds before impact, a radio transmission from the tower was audible on both CVRs directing the Blackhawk to pass behind the CRJ. CVR data from the Blackhawk indicated that the portion of the transmission that stated “pass behind the” may not have been received by the Blackhawk crew. Transmission was stepped on by a 0.8 second mic key from the Blackhawk. The Blackhawk was keying the mic to communicate with ATC. > At 8:47:58, or 1 second before impact, the CRJ began to increase its pitch,reaching about 9 degrees nose up at the time of collision. FDR data showed the CRJ elevators were deflected near their maximum nose up travel. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/220 "2025-02-15T01:37:12Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > **3D analysis shows how helicopter pilots could have mixed up jets in DCA crash** [Non-paywalled repost of Washington Post article] I brought this up earlier as a possible scenario. This is why it’s important to spell out your instructions. ATC would have added clarity if instructions were to follow behind traffic “ON SHORT FINAL FOR 33”. the helicopter likely saw the plane on final for runway 1. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/221 "2025-02-15T02:21:48Z")
Black Hark altimeter might’ve malfunctioned. Is this still breaking news or can we make political comments? > **[Altimeter in Black Hawk helicopter may have malfunctioned before DCA mid-air...](https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/nx-s1-5297147/black-hawk-helicopter-american-airlines-collision-ntsb)** > > The National Transportation Safety Board says altimeter in the Black Hawk helicopter may have malfunctioned before the DCA mid-air collision with an American Airlines jet. All 67 people aboard died. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/222 "2025-02-16T18:27:36Z")
The article is just wrong. The Helicopter crew responded to the transmission in question. It wasn’t a well spelled-out directive from the tower. And it’s not clear on the altimeter information. It would have been mechanically set before takeoff. If the transponder was sending the wrong altitude information that is an issue but they’re flying so low They should be able to recognize a 100 ft shift while flying at 200 ft. It was an accident waiting to happen and almost happened the week before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=12)