# Passenger plane crashes near DC-area’s Reagan Airport {Jan 29, 2025} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [January 30, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602 "2025-01-30T03:13:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/41 "2025-01-30T14:42:07Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The “right” answer is simply close DCA to all airline traffic & move that to Dulles. Leave DCA for corporate jets and helos. Then the “10 lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag all day every day something’s gotta give someday.” problem simply evaporates. I agree, and I’ve said before in the GA thread that I think we’ve reached “maximum efficiency”. There’s very little leeway in this system, the margins are tight. Not dangerous usually, but unforgiving of error or even minor blips. Problems usually result in losing efficiency, not safety. But when the shit really hits the fan… As for DCA in particular, I’ve only flown there rarely as a charter pilot. It’s too much of a nuisance for us and the passengers. Much simpler to go into Dulles. My last couple of flights into DCA I remember thinking, “This is really stupid.” All that maneuvering to avoid any scrap of land. On a visual approach, I remember we were required to turn to avoid the merest little jutting point of land, with nothing at all on it. It was a sandbar barely attached to the mainland. And pilots are asked to maneuver at low level during an approach for that? While our attention was on that we certainly wouldn’t have noticed a helicopter, especially at night. Get rid of DCA, get rid of Aspen, simplify procedures and admit that we can’t pump many more airplanes into the system. This was bound to happen eventually, no matter how many years we got away with it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/42 "2025-01-30T14:48:16Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > > [@DCnDC](#): > > > > Congresspeople didn’t want to ride all the way out to IAD or BWI. > > And that’s also the reason the Army helo was there: training for missions involving “continuity of government”, which means picking up VIPs at the nearest available aerodrome to evacuate them from DC before it gets erased by an incoming nuclear strike (for instance). > > As terrible as this incident is, you can’t really claim the chopper wasn’t supposed to be there. Unless you know something specific about that flight, the idea it’s connected to VIP emergency evacuation training seems fanciful. The DoD runs what’s almost a scheduled helicopter service between many of the the government’s facilities. And not just DoD facilities. Lots of helos in flight all day every day ferrying folks to and fro to avoid wasting 2 or 3 hours in DC traffic. This particular helo flight definitely did not have passengers aboard and is being labeled a “training flight”. Maybe just flight proficiency, maybe familiarization with the very complicated helo route structure that runs underneath the airplane route structure. Maybe something else. And yes, maybe VIP evacuation. But sure not the way to bet. IMO YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/43 "2025-01-30T15:06:43Z")
The Army mentioned it as one of the reasons for missions of this type. > **[Chilling Air Traffic Control Audio From H-60 Collision With CRJ700 Over...](https://www.twz.com/air/h-60-black-hawk-collides-with-crj700-airliner-over-potomac-river)** > > Air traffic at Ronald Reagan National Airport has been halted while rescuers are on the scene looking for survivors. > [@](#): > > Joint Task Force-National Capitol Region also released a statement. > > “We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight’s incident was an Army UH-60 helicopter from Bravo Company, 12th Aviation Battalion, out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir during a training flight,” JTF-NCR media chief Heather Chairez stated. “We are working with local officials and will provide additional information once it becomes available.” > > The 12th Aviation Battalion provides VIP and other helicopter airlift support across the National Capitol Region (NCR) around Washington, D.C. The unit is also part of so-called “continuity of government” planning… So, my speculation is that the training mission was partly in support of CoG, because that’s a good reason to be at DCA. Or they could have just been getting in their monthly flight hours in the dead of the night in one of the most overcrowded air spaces in the Capitol region. ---
**Author:** ![DaveUnknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DaveUnknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveUnknown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/44 "2025-01-30T15:20:06Z")
Closing DCA is a hasty response-- I’m pretty sure the helicopter is at fault here. I have seen helicopters along the Potomac, flying beneath airlines maybe a couple hundred feet apart many times. This particular helicopter did something wrong, either not enough separation, or confused by lights, etc. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/45 "2025-01-30T15:22:17Z")
The investigation is just beginning. It will take awhile before its known why the accident happened. The 74 Youtube channel posted a video 3 days ago. A military jet running out of fuel needed help from air controllers to land quickly. The difference in military navigational equipment created some confusion. The jet did land safely. But he was very close to a fuel emergency over a city. I’m not suggesting any fault with the tragic passenger jet and chopper accident. Wait for the investigation. I won’t try to summarize the alphabet soup in this video. The person commenting on the air traffic audio is a 747 pilot and can explain it much better. 24 mins but the first 10 gives a clear picture of a civilian air controller helping a military pilot land. The different navigational tech creates challenges. The air controller did a great job getting this pilot safely down. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gq72ko366T4/maxresdefault.jpg "Fighter Pilot Runs Out of Fuel Over Downtown") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq72ko366T4) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/46 "2025-01-30T15:33:27Z")
Some of the air controller audio prior to the American Airlines, chopper collision has been posted. That’s why it’s important to understand there is a difference in the military navigational tech. It’s not better or worse. Just different because the military has different mission requirements. I feel so bad for the victims families. What they’re experiencing now is unimaginable. > **[Air Traffic Audio Reveals Urgent Warning Moments Before D.C. Plane Crash](https://www.tmz.com/2025/01/30/air-traffic-control-audio-before-fatal-plane-crash-washington-dc/)** > > Extremely tense audio reveals air traffic controllers warned the U.S. Army helicopter that fatally crashed into an American Airlines passenger plane in Washington D.C. Wednesday night moments before the catastrophe. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/47 "2025-01-30T16:15:49Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Now my wife and I are getting on a plane to Jamaica in less than 48 hours, on our first adult vacation in years, now that the kids are out of the house. And I had been thinking “I sure hope there’s no big horrible plane crash in the news just before we leave!” Man, I’m right there with you. I haven’t flown since 2013, also not for fear just mostly lack of time and money and destinations (I’m perfectly happy to vacation within an 8 hour drive). I’ve been putting off buying tickets to go to LA for my partner’s bestie’s wedding, and finally made the purchase yesterday morning. I had the exact same thought as you. Gulp. One of my connections is at SFO, which someone kindly pointed out upthread was the site of the last domestic site of an airline crash in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/48 "2025-01-30T16:29:46Z")
At this very moment, Trump is blaming Biden for lowering standards for air traffic controllers. 🙄 Edit: Now it’s the fault of Pete Buttigieg and diversity hiring. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/49 "2025-01-30T16:32:52Z")
To be fair, the FAA under Biden did remove the requirement for a college degree, but the training and performance standards remained rigorous and strict, and the role of ATC in this incident is still very unclear. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/50 "2025-01-30T16:34:06Z")
Yeah, sounds like we’re in the same boat (that is, if the boat was a plane 😏). I don’t want to hijack a breaking news thread anymore than I already have with my initial post, so maybe I’ll start a ‘nervous flyer’ thread, or feel free to PM me if you’d like to commiserate further! I will say this: I did the math. Velocity said upthread: > [@Velocity](#): > > Media is reporting it’s the first commercial airliner crash in the USA since 2009. There are 45,000 commercial flights in the US per day. I’ll round that down to an estimated average 40,000 / day since 2009. 15 years since is 5,475 days. 5,475 X 40,000 flights per day = 219,000,000 flights between accidents. Astronomically great odds (or astronomically bad if you’re playing the lottery). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/51 "2025-01-30T16:42:19Z")
I just watched what has got to be the most embarrassing Presidential reaction to a tragedy in American history. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/52 "2025-01-30T16:42:28Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > At this very moment, Trump is blaming Biden for lowering standards for air traffic controllers. 🙄 > > Edit: Now it’s the fault of Pete Buttigieg and diversity hiring. What I’m noticing is that on the RWNJ sites they’ve started using “DEI Hire” to mean any minority, and as a pejorative. Like, even the clerk at a 7-11 who happens to be black would be called a DEI hire. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/53 "2025-01-30T16:45:42Z")
The whole press conference has devolved into a circle-jerk about how great the Trump administration is. What a disgusting shitshow. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/54 "2025-01-30T16:48:00Z")
As this is #Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share, please stop with the Politics in it. There are many flags already. There will be sorted out later. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/55 "2025-01-30T16:48:05Z")
I stand corrected, as someone else pointed out above, there was a crash in 2014 as well. Czarcasm, I didn’t mean to reply to you, I meant Solost, but I don’t know how to change it. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/58 "2025-01-30T17:00:46Z")
My apologies. I’ve taken it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/59 "2025-01-30T17:04:19Z")
Moderating: > [@Wheelz](#): > > At this very moment, Trump is blaming Biden for lowering standards for air traffic controllers. 🙄 > > Edit: Now it’s the fault of Pete Buttigieg and diversity hiring. > [@OldOlds](#): > > What I’m noticing is that on the RWNJ sites they’ve started using “DEI Hire” to mean any minority, and as a pejorative. Like, even the clerk at a 7-11 who happens to be black would be called a DEI hire. Let’s leave the politics out of a Breaking News MPSIMS thread. Feel free to discuss it in P&E, of course. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/60 "2025-01-30T17:11:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I stand corrected, as someone else pointed out above, there was a crash in 2014 as well. > > Czarcasm, I didn’t mean to reply to you, I meant Solost, but I don’t know how to change it. OK, well, still that makes it according to my math around 146,000,000 flights between accidents in the US. Still a pretty great safety record. And I didn’t look up the 2009 and 2014 incidents you mentioned, but I did read that the last crash in the US that was as bad in terms of loss of life as this one, and the last major US crash I personally remember off the top of my head, was the Rockaway crash in 2001, a few months after 9/11. That’s a whopping over 23 years, or ~ 335,800,000 flights since. I think talking in general about relative airline safety is relevant enough in a breaking news plane crash thread, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/61 "2025-01-30T17:19:27Z")
when i read the news this morning, the amount of figure skaters on the plane, caused a bell ring in my head. 1961. there was a plane crash that involved many skaters on the us figure skate team. so eerie. just horrible for the loved ones of those on the plane and helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/62 "2025-01-30T17:23:53Z")
On a broader note, I wonder if it would be better to just close Reagan airport entirely and rely on Dulles for all Washington DC’s air travel needs. With the airport gone, then its space could be converted to a lot of room for apartments, businesses, parks, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=4)