# Passenger plane crashes near DC-area’s Reagan Airport {Jan 29, 2025} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [January 30, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602 "2025-01-30T03:13:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/123 "2025-01-31T16:18:16Z")
I’m not trusting air traffic control to a system that can’t even reliably do basic arithmetic correctly. I get why that might seem like a good idea, but ATC isn’t just about keeping the dots from running into one another. AI works best in highly predictable situations. Directing air traffic is anything but a predictable situation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/124 "2025-01-31T16:21:28Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I am predicting that within not-too-many years (10, 20, 30?), we will have ATC humans replaced with computer programs. Theoretically, such programs would take into account all known factors, compute possible conflicts, and issue commands to prevent accidents like this, removing the volatile human aspect. > > I’m sure this won’t eliminate all disasters, but future disasters will be different. Maybe those same computer programs can use them to improve the system. Isn’t that what AI is all about? Hell, have AI fly the planes too. No chance of glitches or nefarious actors hacking into the system, right? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/125 "2025-01-31T16:39:51Z")
I am so upset that the helicopter pilot was a woman. I am just waiting for Trump to use that against all women and to continue ranting about DEI. Not to mention the new SOD and his views on women in combat. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/126 "2025-01-31T16:43:32Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I am so upset that the helicopter pilot was a woman. Where are you seeing this? I’ve not seen any confirmed mention of a woman being among the crew on the Blackhawk. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/127 "2025-01-31T16:47:01Z")
> **[Black Hawk crew involved in DC crash made up of 'top pilots' with thousands...](https://6abc.com/amp/post/army-black-hawk-crew-involved-dc-crash-made-top-pilots-thousands-hours-experience/15849913/)** > > The crew of the Army Black Hawk helicopter involved in the deadly collision with a jetliner had thousands of hours of flight experience. “ the female pilot who was commanding the flight at the time” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/128 "2025-01-31T16:48:19Z")
Thank you. Cites for breaking news are always helpful, and one should not assume that everyone has seen what you (the collective “you”) have just seen. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/129 "2025-01-31T17:16:36Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I am predicting that within not-too-many years (10, 20, 30?), we will have ATC humans replaced with computer programs. Theoretically, such programs would take into account all known factors, compute possible conflicts, and issue commands to prevent accidents like this, removing the volatile human aspect. > > I’m sure this won’t eliminate all disasters, but future disasters will be different. Maybe those same computer programs can use them to improve the system. Isn’t that what AI is all about? I believe (an educated guess) that there are hierarchical rules to deconflicting air traffic on approach and that these rules are well understood\*. And if that is truly the case then this might possibly be automated in the future. \* — being well understood is one thing, but in practice there might still be misunderstandings ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/130 "2025-01-31T17:28:03Z")
I started another thread about automating air traffic control: [Are we ready to fully automate air traffic control](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-ready-to-fully-automate-air-traffic-control/1013685) ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/131 "2025-01-31T17:30:10Z")
Those videos show the helicopter going at the plane like a heat-seeking missile. Pilot was either suicidal or checking his/her phone. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/132 "2025-01-31T17:44:47Z")
> [@K364](#): > > his/her Per **psychobunny** ’s link above, the Pilot in Command (PIC) was a woman. The Instructor Pilot (IP) was male, but he was not the PIC. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/133 "2025-01-31T18:01:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@K364](#): > > > > his/her > > Per **psychobunny** ’s link above, the Pilot in Command (PIC) was a woman. The Instructor Pilot (IP) was male, but he was not the PIC. If this was some sort of check ride with an IP then the IP would be in the left seat. The left seater would be the one to ensure the left side of the helicopter was clear. However an IP has a lot more to do while giving a check ride and may not have been looking in the right direction. Just because there was an IP in the cockpit doesn’t mean the PIC was inexperienced. Every military pilot has to have periodic check flights with an IP. The PIC could very well have more hours and more experience than the IP they are flying with. An IP has to complete a course to become an instructor. It’s an additional duty in Army aviation units. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/134 "2025-01-31T18:07:25Z")
Story said IP had over 1,000 hours, PIC had over 500 hours. Doesn’t specify in that aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/135 "2025-01-31T18:09:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Just because there was an IP in the cockpit doesn’t mean the PIC was inexperienced. PIC: ~500 hours IP: ~1,000 hours > [@Loach](#): > > Every military pilot has to have periodic check flights with an IP. Civilians get BFRs (Biennial Flight Reviews). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/136 "2025-01-31T18:16:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Just because there was an IP in the cockpit doesn’t mean the PIC was inexperienced. > > PIC: ~500 hours > IP: ~1,000 hours > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Every military pilot has to have periodic check flights with an IP. > > Civilians get BFRs (Biennial Flight Reviews). I was talking in general. I did see the specifics. Army check rides are annual. It’s actually more than one ride since it has to cover day and night along with IFR, VFR and NVGs. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/137 "2025-01-31T19:16:40Z")
And in the “closing the barn door after the horse has bolted” department: > **FAA action near airport:** The Federal Aviation Administration [has indefinitely shut down the low-altitude helicopter corridor](https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-01-31-25#cm6kun99s002d3b6m9acd0dfy)that was in use at the time of Wednesday night’s fatal midair collision near Reagan National Airport, an FAA official tells CNN. Just a day before, another flight [was forced to abort](https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/30/us/dca-plane-helicopter-crash-invs/index.html) its first landing after a helicopter flew near its flight path. > **[Live updates: DC plane crash investigation continues as families mourn tragedy...](https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-01-31-25#cm6kun99s002d3b6m9acd0dfy)** > > The flight data and voice recorders, known as black boxes, have been recovered after the midair collision of a passenger jet and an Army helicopter in the Washington, DC, area, the National Transportation Safety Board said. Follow for live news... ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/138 "2025-01-31T21:23:32Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > And in the “closing the barn door after the horse has bolted” department: Plenty of horses still in that barn. It’s the right thing to do, pending investigation. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/139 "2025-01-31T22:19:37Z")
> [@K364](#): > > Those videos show the helicopter going at the plane like a heat-seeking missile. Pilot was either suicidal or checking his/her phone. Such speculation is grossly inappropriate IMHO. This occurred at night, at low altitude, within a densely populated area. That means lots of background lighting, which can make it hard to pick out the spec(s’ of light that might represent a plane, particularly if approaching almost head on, and doubly so if there are multiple other aircraft that could be mistaken for the aircraft on concern. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/140 "2025-01-31T22:37:19Z")
IMHO … Listening to the ATC recording it sure sounds like ATC warned about the plane, the helo pilot said they saw it, but the pilot was looking at the wrong plane, collision ensues. That would be a very classic cause of such a crash. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/141 "2025-01-31T22:41:01Z")
1500’ is for Route 6 doing a cross runway overflight of DCA. 200’ or below is the level for Route 1 then Route 4 near DCA [Here is the link to the FAA Helicopter charts for DC and Baltimore](https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/09-05-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/142 "2025-01-31T23:29:30Z")
It seems that two of the victims were from my townhouse community (it’s small, only 60 townhouses). I only know because they sent out a request for money for a card and gift card for the family. I feel terrible that I don’t know my neighbors. There are periodic occasions to get together ( ice cream socials etc) but I never go. In fact, I only currently know the neighbors on one side of me and not the neighbors on the other side. Many of the townhouses are rented and turnover in the DC area is always high but now I feel terrible that I didn’t even know my neighbors. One of the few I do know is the neighborhood busybody who knows everything. I try to keep on her good side because she has HOA influence and can make life tough or easy for you. I may hit her up for more information but for now I just feel worse than before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=8)