# Passenger plane crashes near DC-area’s Reagan Airport {Jan 29, 2025} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [January 30, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602 "2025-01-30T03:13:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2025, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/163 "2025-02-01T23:20:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > The helicopter crew has been described as highly skilled. I think the highest time pilot had 1500 hrs. The pilot in training had 500 hrs. If those are cumulative hrs they are on the low side. > > Looking at the age of the crew I’d think it more likely that it’s time-in-type flight hrs and not cumulative. I’ve never known the Army to pay particular attention to time in type. I’m assuming this is total hours. They just released the name of the PIC. She was a captain. It’s very normal for a commissioned officer to have a much lower amount of total hours than a warrant officer does. You get the most flying time as a 2LT and as you go higher in rank your assignments take you away from the stick more and more. Staff officers scramble to get their minimum hours per month. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/164 "2025-02-02T05:10:02Z")
I found [this video](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=05dc5d931443a7b3&q=tcas+system+aviation&udm=7&fbs=ABzOT_CWdhQLP1FcmU5B0fn3xuWpA-dk4wpBWOGsoR7DG5zJBtmuEdhfywyzhendkLDnhcoz2MIB1dVLatL09WpR-ccvCtXxLsflwELstGgc_oBVxoK4Y7T8UZBBji5dx0E-6JCZtb88GLeioJvf13V8cdv9FYgiL5szuOUJ0w6xwrJWcyDs6JuHP_xCa0SbN996ttYO3TvnwAq2QD8IAs5lRRpoX6hrnw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFi4-bjqSLAxVKkokEHSAjI0cQtKgLegQIERAB&biw=1508&bih=622&dpr=0.9#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:090c1c30,vid:BI3Q8-TNmB4,st:0) on TCAS to be interesting. There is the potential for antenna error. It also stated that ADS-B is going to be it’s replacement as it gives altitude and speed of the other planes in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/165 "2025-02-02T05:34:52Z")
[Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL8tf9_rkWA) talking about PHL Medical flight crash. It shows the plane going down at a very steep angle which is a classic stall characteristic. Reason for stall unknown. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/166 "2025-02-02T18:25:13Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Local rumors are (sorry, no cite yet) that the training flight was to practice evacuating VIPs in an emergency. Further, that the pilot was using night vision equipment. Been watching for confirmation. This article confirms that the crew had night vision equipment. Obvs no one can be sure whether they chose to use it. > **[What to know about the deadly American Airlines and Black Hawk helicopter...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/reagan-national-airport-closed-due-aircraft-emergency/story?id=118246693)** > > An Army Black Hawk helicopter collided with a regional jet near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport on Wednesday evening, U.S. officials confirmed to ABC News. Also, I have to walk back what I said about the ATC being blameless. It seems to me that the ATC should have been clear that the helicopter had TWO planes in visual range, not just one. I do think that’s a procedural problem though, not operator error. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/167 "2025-02-02T18:28:27Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Obvs no one can be sure whether they chose to use it. I think the investigation should inform of that eventually. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/168 "2025-02-02T18:50:47Z")
Capt. Rebecca M. Lobach has been identified as the helicopter pilot. Can someone clarify? Was this an Army or Army Reserve flight? [Night vision goggles aren’t as useful in cities.](https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/night-vision-equipment-and-crowded-airspace-under-scrutiny-in-washington-collision/161626.article) Link [Capt. Rebecca M. Lobach identified as Black Hawk helicopter pilot in DC crash - ABC7 San Francisco](https://abc7news.com/post/capt-rebecca-lobach-identified-black-hawk-helicopter-pilot-dc-crash/15854679/) > [@](#): > > Her family said she volunteered White House military social aide, supporting the president and first lady in hosting countless White House events, including ceremonies awarding the Medal of Honor and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. > > Lobach also was a certified Army Sexual Harassment/Assault Response and Prevention victim advocate and “hoped to continue her education so she could serve this country as a physician when her time with the Army ended,” her family said. > [@](#): > > The collision happened around 20:48 local time while the Black Hawk crew was performing a regular **[night proficiency flight](https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/black-hawk-involved-in-psa-airlines-crash-was-conducting-a-night-proficiency-flight/161602.article)** with night vision goggles (NVGs) – standard practise for US Army night flights. > > Some experts have speculated that the night vision equipment may have contributed to the disaster. The goggles work by enhancing ambient light sources that are too dim for the naked eye, such as stars. When worn in a bright environment such as a cityscape, can quickly blind a wearer. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/169 "2025-02-02T19:35:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Capt. Rebecca M. Lobach has been identified as the helicopter pilot. > > Can someone clarify? Was this an Army or Army Reserve flight? I don’t have any knowledge other than what’s been reported. The unit cited as her unit is an active duty unit stationed at Fort Belvoir Virginia. I’ve seen nothing to indicate any of them were reservists. Most aviation assets in the reserve component are National Guard. As far as I can tell the closest Army Aviation Reserve unit is at Fort Eustis. The extra information about her involvement with SHARP and other things she did in her career are not pertinent to her work as a pilot. All Army officers have to perform additional duties beyond their main job. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/170 "2025-02-02T19:37:40Z")
Thanks Loach ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/171 "2025-02-02T21:10:26Z")
Yes, a good video. Commercial pilots _should_ know all that stuff but some just can’t help themselves from saying they have traffic on TCAS or worse “on the fish finder”. As technology moves at a glacial pace, I don’t expect to see ADS-B based collision avoidance any time soon. Airbus have autopilot flown resolution advisories now which is really good. I have seen it in action for real and it does a great job. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/172 "2025-02-03T04:58:23Z")
[Here is a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKJklQRyKxo) from a former PSA pilot who has flown the exact scenario at DCA using the same plane type. It shows the complexity of the airport in relation to helicopter traffic. I would describe the approach as a banking short final. It puts a lot of crew focus on the runway because they’re turning into it and not set up for a long straight in approach. They might not have even been able to see the helicopter in the turn. Note the PSA crew was asked to take the other runway to help with other traffic in the landing pattern or at the airport waiting to depart. [Here’s a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PtOdR_VCc) from a military pilot that talks about the closing rate of planes on a head-on collision course and the differences between planes and helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/173 "2025-02-03T22:57:47Z")
Excellent point with the banking. The helicopter’s approach would be obscured and all the attention on the runway. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/174 "2025-02-04T02:57:04Z")
Can the boards pilots comment? I found this pilots article for [setting the altimeter.](https://www.flightnerdairforce.com/blog/altimeter-setting-explained-a-comprehensive-guide-for-pilots) Is it unusual the black boxes show such a discrepancy between the tower and plane? If what’s reported is correct, then the air traffic controller thought the helicopter was at 200 ft. > **[Data from the deadliest U.S. air accident in 24 years show conflicting...](https://apnews.com/article/washington-plane-crash-helicopter-recovery-980dcaf1acb6f80260146edbaaa9e4c1)** > > Preliminary data from the deadliest U.S. aviation accident in nearly 25 years showed conflicting readings about the altitudes of an airliner and Army helicopter when they collided near Washington. > [@](#): > > When you’re preparing for a flight, you’ll get the current altimeter setting from the air traffic control tower (ATC) or automatic terminal information service (ATIS). For example, if ATC says “Altimeter 30.15” you would dial 30.15 into your altimeter. This is the local atmospheric pressure corrected to sea level. > [@](#): > > Data from the jet’s flight recorder showed its altitude as 325 feet (99 meters), plus or minus 25 feet (7.6 meters), when the crash happened Wednesday night, National Transportation Safety Board officials told reporters. Data in the control tower, though, showed the Black Hawk helicopter at 200 feet (61 meters) at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/175 "2025-02-04T03:02:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I found this pilots article for [setting the altimeter.](https://www.flightnerdairforce.com/blog/altimeter-setting-explained-a-comprehensive-guide-for-pilots) That’s what you do. Set the given altimeter in the Kollsman’s window to calibrate the pressure altitude. No idea how this corresponds to flight recorders. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/176 "2025-02-04T03:07:57Z")
Altitude is just one of many, many things the investigation. There’s no getting around that the helicopter was too high and in the planes air space. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/177 "2025-02-04T03:20:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Is it unusual the black boxes show such a discrepancy between the tower and plane? > > If what’s reported is correct, then the air traffic controller thought the helicopter was at 200 ft. The data sent by an aircraft’s transponder to ATC and to other aircrafts’ TCAS system is rounded (or truncated, I don’t know which) to the nearest 100 feet. It’s also only transmitted every few seconds in response to a request from ATC’s radar surveillance systems. So in the presence of a significant rate of climb or descent, the reported value may be accurate at that instant, but very quickly be significantly obsolete before the next update occurs. Between rounding / truncating and timing, I don’t find anything surprising about the 125 foot discrepancy. Altimeter settings and possible discrepancies / goofs from that arena are another source of error, but without more detail about which sort of altitude the various readouts are really using, the apparent 125 foot delta might in fact be zero actual feet; just the same thing measured on two different scales that the articles did not bother to explain. Because the author(s) of the article don’t know anything about these nuances. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/178 "2025-02-04T03:48:08Z")
Thank you. It helps hearing a pilot’s explanation. The reporters do the best they can, but don’t have the experience to explain technical details. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/179 "2025-02-04T05:06:46Z")
In a smaller plane you would set the altimeter with current barometric pressure. This will adjust the altitude reading. The pilot should check that against the posted altitude at the airport before takeoff. They should be the same. If they’re not there’s a problem. The transponder would take information from the altimeter or another unit designed to feed it the correct information. As the aircraft travels it is necessary to adjust for any changes in barometric pressure or the altitude will not read correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/180 "2025-02-04T05:21:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If what’s reported is correct, then the air traffic controller thought the helicopter was at 200 ft. And took the precaution of having the helicopter fly behind the Jet. I would posit that the controller was aware of the issues with transponders and TCAS. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/181 "2025-02-05T04:44:54Z")
Question for commercial pilots, do you check the altimeter against field elevation before taking off? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602/182 "2025-02-05T04:59:39Z")
The first item on the “TAXI OUT” checklist is “ALTIMETERS… … … (BOTH) \_\_\_\_ IN/hPa, \_\_\_\_FT” > **[747checklist.pdf](https://www.onebag.com/popups/747checklist.pdf)** > > 18.00 KB [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passenger-plane-crashes-near-dc-area-s-reagan-airport-jan-29-2025/1013602.md?page=10)