# Passing etiquette and dickishness **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525 "2016-08-12T03:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/41 "2016-08-12T19:08:20Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > IMHO, that right there is dickish behavior. That he was only going 70, or that in the past he’s gone 85-90? Because I gotta tell you, my car doesn’t do well at 90 and I’m not real comfortable there myself, and if there’s anywhere failing to go 90 makes you a dick, I’m guilty from the get-go. And if I’m going 70-75 on a 2-lane back road, I don’t even feel that obligated to get over on the shoulder so someone can blow past at 90. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/42 "2016-08-12T19:11:34Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Right. That’s why the decision to attempt the pass, especially in a bigger, less maneuverable vehicle, represents the critical introduction of new hazard in this scenario. > > Truckers as a class are better drivers than four-wheelers, but this one was thoughtless at best. I wouldn’t absolve the truck driver of guilt, but isn’t it true that the OP made an already bad situation worse? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/43 "2016-08-12T19:17:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t claim total lack of dickishness on the part of the OP, but the trucker initiated the move. Fair enough, but speeding up once you see someone trying to pass is being a dick. I should know, I do it all the time on the Beltway 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/44 "2016-08-12T19:19:36Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I wouldn’t absolve the truck driver of guilt, but isn’t it true that the OP made an already bad situation worse? I don’t think so. The only way it gets worse is if the trucker is so inattentive that he merges back into the trailing car. That’s remotely possible. On the other hand, a successful pass, of just the trailing car, definitely reduces the trailing driver’s visibility. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/45 "2016-08-12T19:23:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Fair enough, but speeding up once you see someone trying to pass is being a dick. Shit, we didn’t even do this in New Jersey. New Jersey has notoriously bad traffic and yes, some of the most egregious examples of shitty driving I have ever witnessed, but I never once had someone try to block me in when I was trying to pass or get over. There seems to be a universal mentality over there of ‘‘We’re all in this traffic shitstorm together,’’ and the result is that if you decide you need to take a certain action (like change lanes) people will let you do it. I got so used to it that when I moved back to Michigan it took some adjusting. In NJ putting on your blinker means, ‘‘I’m getting over now.’’ In Michigan it means, ‘‘Hi, how are you, would you mind maybe if I got over? I’m just going to sit here for twenty years and wait to see if that’s okay with you. Okay, no? Okay, have a nice day anyway!’’ It’s an extremely inefficient way to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/46 "2016-08-12T19:57:56Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I don’t think so. The only way it gets worse is if the trucker is so inattentive that he merges back into the trailing car. That’s remotely possible. On the other hand, a successful pass, of just the trailing car, definitely reduces the trailing driver’s visibility. That’s just silly. People drive behind trucks all the time. It’s ridiculous to think driving behind one is a safety hazard. Never mind the fact their is nothing stopping the trailing driver from slowing down until visibility is regained. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/47 "2016-08-12T20:10:49Z")
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, but I read that there was a space big enough for the truck to pull into between the OP and the car ahead, but when the truck attempted to pass, the OP sped up, closing that space and preventing the truck from passing. I don’t know about anyone else, but if two cars are spaced out far enough for me to safely get between them, I will pass one, and then slide back into the lane, and when it is safe to do so, I will pull out again and pass the next one. Having the car in front speed up when I try to pass, closing that gap and forcing me into the oncoming lane for longer is definitely a dick move. If I’m the car being passed, I generally back off on the gas just a little to allow them to get past me quicker, because that’s the nice thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/48 "2016-08-12T20:17:39Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > That’s just silly. People drive behind trucks all the time. It’s ridiculous to think driving behind one is a safety hazard. I think this is generally true, but one time I was merging onto the freeway with a semi truck directly in front of me and the damned thing turned too sharp, slipped a tire off the road and flipped right over. We weren’t driving at a very high rate of speed and there was a lot of traffic, so I was in pretty close range. I can’t describe to you the feeling of abject horror in the seconds before you know a semi truck is about to flip over directly in front of you, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Fortunately, everybody involved was okay. The driver was shaking like a leaf, but not injured. I had plenty of time to stop. I’m generally more cautious about driving behind trucks, now. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/49 "2016-08-12T20:41:36Z")
The trucker was trying to build up speed before the hill. Say the trucker made it around you on his first attempt. Then he could have been passing the second car where he instead passed you, 700’ before the hill. By the time he starts slowing down, you and the other car have the open lane going up the hill and can get back around him. Neither you or the other car are slowed down, and he maintains a little more constant speed himself. How is the trucker’s move dickish? If you had been on the other car’s tail already and refused to drop back to let the truck in, that’s a little rude but not dickish. But speeding up to close the gap? Sorry, but you’re definitely the dick in this case. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/50 "2016-08-12T21:13:15Z")
OP: “He runs out of space and drops back until he can see another spot to pass – which happens to be 700’ before a hill with a passing lane. When we reach the hill, **the semi is right beside me, about to enter the passing lane** ; the guy in front speeds up to 75, I speed up with him, and the semi is left behind, moving into the right lane as it grinds up the short hill.” I still don’t get it. If it’s a two-lane road, how is he “beside” you if he is not in the passing lane yet? ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/51 "2016-08-13T01:20:40Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The trucker was trying to build up speed before the hill. Say the trucker made it around you on his first attempt. Then he could have been passing the second car where he instead passed you, 700’ before the hill. Exactly. It’s much more difficult to pass two vehicles at once, especially with a heavy load. > [@](#): > > By the time he starts slowing down, you and the other car have the open lane going up the hill and can get back around him. The trucker may very well be able to generate enough momentum that he would not necessarily slow the cars behind, and all could go on their way as before. > [@](#): > > Neither you or the other car are slowed down, and he maintains a little more constant speed himself. How is the trucker’s move dickish? It isn’t. Momentum on hills is absolutely critical for a trucker. If forced to slow down before a steep grade, he’s going have to downshift to an appropriate gear and start a crawl up that hill, gear after gear after gear. > [@](#): > > If you had been on the other car’s tail already and refused to drop back to let the truck in, that’s a little rude but not dickish. But speeding up to close the gap? Sorry, but you’re definitely the dick in this case. Have to agree, but I give props for OP’s having second thoughts enough to even post the question. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/52 "2016-08-13T01:54:52Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > It’s much more difficult to pass two vehicles at once, especially with a heavy load. Not so much, if they compress the distance between them. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/53 "2016-08-13T02:01:09Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > That’s just silly. People drive behind trucks all the time. It’s ridiculous to think driving behind one is a safety hazard. Seriously? You think you’re not less safe with a huge vehicle directly in front of you, completely blocking your view of what’s in front of them? People have died, thinking this, right up until the brake lights came on. > [@Grrr](#): > > Never mind the fact their is nothing stopping the trailing driver from slowing down until visibility is regained. That’s probably what the OP meant by being “pushed back.” Certainly, slowing down a lot–or pulling over for a minute–would be safer than holding position after a massive truck swoops in front of you. Lotta people would be annoyed at having to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/54 "2016-08-13T02:25:51Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > You think you’re not less safe with a huge vehicle directly in front of you, completely blocking your view of what’s in front of them? People have died, thinking this, right up until the brake lights came on. See, for example, the many lawyers’ sites with pages like [this](http://finchmccranie.com/beware-traveling-behind-tractor-trailers-rear-end-accidents-often-deadly/). They want you to come to them to sue the trucking company for “underride guard failure,” after your loved one is decapitated going under the trailer. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/55 "2016-08-13T02:42:49Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Where the heck do you guys live? (I’m guessing Texas, Wyoming or the such) Around here a two lane rural road would be somewhere between 45 and 55. Even the multi lane interstates max out at 70. Idaho, guess I didn’t read it fully that sort of road would be 65-70. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/56 "2016-08-13T03:46:23Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Seriously? You think you’re not less safe with a huge vehicle directly in front of you, completely blocking your view of what’s in front of them? People have died, thinking this, right up until the brake lights came on. > > That’s probably what the OP meant by being “pushed back.” > > Certainly, slowing down a lot–or pulling over for a minute–would be safer than holding position after a massive truck swoops in front of you. Lotta people would be annoyed at having to do that. As long as you are at a safe following distance being behind a truck should be no more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/57 "2016-08-13T05:55:43Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I would say that you are not obligated to make it easier for someone to pass, but the minute you take any action to make it more difficult to pass, you are being a dick. Yes. And worse than being a dick, _you increase the chance of danger_ (e.g. if an idiot enters the opposite lane without looking to the left for wrong-lane (i.e. passing) traffic — danger likely to be serious at that speed. I live in Thailand. Whatever bad driving you experience in the U.S.A. _multiply by fifty_ to get an idea of the bad driving here two decades ago. (Driving has been steadily improving, but the country still has one of the higher fatalities per passenger-mile in the world.) I asked some of my Western friends, “When someone is trying to pass you, do you slow down and make it easier for them?” They said “No” and looked at me like I was crazy. I think people who _don’t_ make it easier for the other driver, however stupid he may be, are the idiots. Indeed the appropriateness of making it easier for them _increases the stupider they are_. I’m not always in a good mood, and have occasionally misbehaved worse than OP. Buy me a beer and I’ll tell you stories which still almost give me nightmares. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/58 "2016-08-13T16:07:16Z")
Moving at highway speed, I would much rather be behind a truck than in front of one. If I am inattentive enough to drive into the rear of truck, I get what I deserve. If the truck behind drives into me, I am a victim. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/59 "2016-08-13T16:18:11Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > Moving at highway speed, I would much rather be behind a truck than in front of one. > > If I am inattentive enough to drive into the rear of truck, I get what I deserve. If the truck behind drives into me, I am a victim. I get the point. But if you’re close behind, the value of your attention is substantially circumscribed. You can’t react to what you literally cannot see. Honestly, given the truck and behavior described, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere around him. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525/60 "2016-08-13T21:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Shit, we didn’t even do this in New Jersey. New Jersey has notoriously bad traffic and yes, some of the most egregious examples of shitty driving I have ever witnessed, but I never once had someone try to block me in when I was trying to pass or get over. There seems to be a universal mentality over there of ‘‘We’re all in this traffic shitstorm together,’’ and the result is that if you decide you need to take a certain action (like change lanes) people will let you do it. > > I got so used to it that when I moved back to Michigan it took some adjusting. In NJ putting on your blinker means, ‘‘I’m getting over now.’’ In Michigan it means, ‘‘Hi, how are you, would you mind maybe if I got over? I’m just going to sit here for twenty years and wait to see if that’s okay with you. Okay, no? Okay, have a nice day anyway!’’ I noticed this too. East coast, blinker on, everyone around you kind of adjusts their speed to let you move over. West and middle parts, they flat-out ignore your signal. I think it’s kind of rude. Plus it can make for some frenetic and not terribly safe driving if you’ve never been there before and didn’t realize your exit was coming up in time to smoothly move over. I hate driving behind trucks. They do indeed block your visibility even if you have a nice safe following distance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passing-etiquette-and-dickishness/762525.md?page=4)