# Passive/Aggressive? or Stupid? or Thoughtless? or...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 15, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115 "2005-08-15T17:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/61 "2005-08-16T21:38:05Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > **faithfool** was using his powers of tongue-in-cheek to refer to the OP, not you. He wasn’t calling you a coward. > > That said, I feel the temperature rising in this thread. Everyone should check themselves to make sure they don’t cross the line. Talk amongst yourselves, but put down the megaphones. Yes sir. Can I invoke visions of jack boots here? Howzabout he was ugly to the OP first? 😃 \< insert immaturity here \> But nope, I wasn’t calling anyone a coward actually. Just, IMHO, pointing out the obvious projection (like **Giraffe** said). However, my disagreement was with the mind-reading and no matter what, I shouldn’t have come across so strong or sarcastic here in this forum. And varying veiwpoints duly noted **mono** , which you can read above wasn’t my beef. Plus, even though I knew in a round about way where I was, I didn’t really grok (amongst my probably over emotional response) that I was in the wrong place to word my post so, as you put it, tongue in cheek. I promise to be better restrained in the future and pay more attention. [Note for anyone interested… **faithfool** has girlie bits. :p] ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/62 "2005-08-16T22:01:00Z")
minor hijack: > [@Guinastasia](#): > > _eep_ I ALWAYS cry at confrontations, and I hate that. I HATE confrontations because I can’t help crying, and I KNOW I shouldn’t cry, or get upset, but even when I’m not bothered, or I’m in the right, my tear ducts won’t listen. It’s downright embarassing, and I fucking hate it. > Please, don’t hit me **Shirley**. 😉 Heh. I’m a guy and I also have that issue. It’s like any time any sort of emotional issue comes to a head I start to cry. Kind of a problem, particularly when I’m getting “constructive criticism” from a boss delivered in a totally appropriate and non-agressive way and I’m busy trying to keep the water in my eyes from spilling over. Anyway, onwards… I think most everyone here has said great things. I’ll second/third/whatever the suggestion to go to couples counseling. I think the idea of confronting your wife about this all is well-meant, but it doesn’t sound like you guys are able to have confrontations/discussions in a balanced and constructive way. You need mediation. That said, based on your presentation of the situaiton, I’d say that though you both might have issues, your wife is the one that is creating the conflict where there is none, for some reason I couldn’t guess at (warning, armchair psychologist ahead!): My bet (again, based only on what you’ve presented here) is that she has a need to assert control over all aspects of her life, at least where you enter it. This statement: > [@](#): > > I like to drive and she likes to navigate. I’m at the gas pump ready to leave. I ask, “Which way do I go at the intersection?” punctuating this with pointing left and then forward, symbolizing the intersection. She understands this, but says, “Get going and I’ll tell you.” But, I said, “I just want to know which way to go at the intersection and then I’ll know which way to leave.” - and here’s the important part - “Look, you complain if I don’t tell you when to turn and then you think I’m a micromanaging bitch if I navigate. What am I supposed to do?” … is pretty indicitive. You need information to make a decision. She withholds it, and then turns it into, “I never do anything right?” She had control 100% of the time in this situation. There was no conflict or argument, and she created one, with you as the demon. Likewise, with regards to the construction paper: > [@](#): > > “Don’t you think I saw those there too? The teacher needs exactly what’s on the list. _What if every parent just decided to get whatever they felt like?_ Then when they wanted to do crafts they would have all these different sizes and types of papers. And you know what what? They might ask around to see if any other teacher needed them _but probably they’d just end up taking it home because it wasn’t able to be used with all the rest of the stuff. Do you think I’m stupid for just blindly getting what the teacher wants? Or do you think the teacher is stupid or doesn’t know what’s available in the stores._” (bits italicized by me) Again, she has created conflict with you as the absolute moron/bad guy, and your wife (and the poor teachers) as victims of your spitefulness. You think the teacher is stupid. You think your wife is stupid. What was an accident becomes an act of hate and inconsiderateness, strictly because of her words. Finally, in your OP: > [@](#): > > If you want to dress the kids, that’s fine. You can take over the job, but learn how to coordinate clothes. If you won’t then just say so, that’s fine; but don’t pull this that’s-stupid-so-I’ll-just-show-you stuff. It hurts me. You’re not that stupid so I’ve got wonder why you’re doing this. Your wife keeps bringing up how stupid you must think everyone else is, but she is actually the one telling you that you’re stupid. And, she knows this. Sometimes it comes across in a ‘reverse psychology’ sort of way, but she constantly tells you you’re stupid. How can you drive without her? You must be stupid. Your option in the OP is either spite or stupidity, and since you know it’s not spite, it must be that you’re stupid. Likewise with the construction paper. The patern here that I see is this: You do something that doesn’t match perfectly her expectations. She calls you stupid and/or mean. You figure you’re not trying to do anything wrong, so must be stupid in some way. You are also left with no recourse. She provides you with two options only. Since you’ve already done something “horrible,” you’re not offered leeway to suggest anything else. The conversation is over as soon as she begins it. She then maintains tight control over your emotional state and whatever it was you were doing. Why this is the case I have no idea. Which, again, is why you two should see someone together. If you don’t, this relationship can only end in misery (it already seems to be in misery). If you do it still may end, but at least you both might have your respective eyes opened a little. In regards to the speculation that the OP might actually be passive-aggressive, or a jerk, or whatever, I can only say that that doesn’t come across from the text here, and assuming he’s presenting himself as truthfully as he is able, I don’t really see how calling him passive-agressive based solely on a desire to disbelieve him serves any function. I know people, both men and women, who act just as his wife is purported to act (and also people who act as he says he acts), so this doesn’t seem like that far-fetched a scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/63 "2005-08-16T22:03:36Z")
> [@Corner Case](#): > > I’ve screwed up again. I’ve been yelled at by my wife and she’s even in tears about how I seem to be acting. You and your wife have blowups like this over _what outfit your kid is wearing??_ Jesus, you two have enough issues hidden under the surface to make a subscription. You’re wasting time asking for advice on a message board. The two of you need to get to a marriage counselor **ASAP.** ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/64 "2005-08-16T23:01:22Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Heh. I’m a guy and I also have that issue. It’s like any time any sort of emotional issue comes to a head I start to cry. Kind of a problem, particularly when I’m getting “constructive criticism” from a boss delivered in a totally appropriate and non-agressive way and I’m busy trying to keep the water in my eyes from spilling over. I have that problem, too. I hate it and am frustrated by my inability to control it, which of course makes it worse. Rest assured that I am NOT doing it to manipulate anyone. I wouldn’t do that even if I could. I usually try to pass off the tears as allergies. ---
**Author:** ![Tio\_Gringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@Tio\_Gringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tio_Gringo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/65 "2005-08-17T01:14:09Z")
Your wife sounds remarkably like my ex-wife. She (my ex) was very manipulative and a master of passive-aggression. Nothing I _ever_ did was right. She could (and did) find fault with my changing a diaper (which I can do in my sleep). I also recommend counseling, although in my case it did little good as my ex refused to go, as (in her mind) there was nothing wrong with her. Good luck, and I hope you all can work things out for your kids’ sake if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/66 "2005-08-17T01:47:51Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > Okay, while I think this is a couple that definitely needs counseling, I do have to chime in on the school supplies thing. > > Depending on where you are, if you’re given a school supply list that calls for 12x18" construction paper (50 sheets) and you send your child to school with the wrong size, it will be _returned home with instructions to get the right size_. I kid you not. > > When my daughter was going into first grade in San Antonio, her school supply list called for a box of 8 crayons. I searched at least five stores and could not find a box of 8 crayons anywhere, so I sent her with a box of 16, figuring the teacher could just remove the offending 8 colors. > Boy, was I wrong. The box of 16 was returned home with a lecture from the teacher about how **“we want every child to have exactly the same thing so nobody feels special or different.”** So I had to hunt through four or five more stores before finally finding the right size box to send to school with her. All that over 8 lousy crayons. > > So I can understand the mom’s frustration if she knows that the school is going to pull that kind of dick move on her. Close enough just won’t work, even though a rational person might see nothing wrong with it. Doesn’t sound like rational people are in charge at your kid’s school! ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/67 "2005-08-17T01:54:56Z")
Assuming the OP has written an accurate account of the situation, I agree that you need couples counseling. It could be that your wife has lived with someone who was extremely passive aggressive before and is assuming your actions are part of that same pattern. She needs to learn not to project that onto you. I say this because my mother is _extremely_ passive aggressive. Every time she has to do something she doesn’t want to, she finds a way to mess it up. She never says no, she just messes it up. It took me a long time to realize that sometimes when people do things differently from the way I expect (or flat out mess up), they’re not doing it intentionally. ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/68 "2005-08-17T04:28:21Z")
**Eonwe** , from where I sit you nailed it. Nicely done. [\* golf claps \*] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/69 "2005-08-17T04:48:19Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > I have that problem, too. I hate it and am frustrated by my inability to control it, which of course makes it worse. Rest assured that I am NOT doing it to manipulate anyone. I wouldn’t do that even if I could. > > I usually try to pass off the tears as allergies. That’s what I do, too. I don’t think I ever fool anyone, but it usually allows me to save face, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/70 "2005-08-17T13:44:28Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Doesn’t sound like rational people are in charge at your kid’s school! That’s what I thought, too. If my kid showed up with a note like that, I’d be tempted to send a note back to the teacher saying “then you spend your free time going to every store in town trying to find the box of 8 crayons.” I mean, I understand that kids need schools supplies… but come on, that’s a little over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/71 "2005-08-17T13:46:14Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > I have that problem, too. I hate it and am frustrated by my inability to control it, which of course makes it worse. Rest assured that I am NOT doing it to manipulate anyone. I wouldn’t do that even if I could. > > I usually try to pass off the tears as allergies. Ok, so I’ll 'fess up, too… I have this problem, too. I’ve worked on controlling it and have gotten much better, but I still end up in tears if I am in a serious argument. I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. ---
**Author:** ![velvetjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f9b8f/32.png) [@velvetjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetjones)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/72 "2005-08-17T14:22:17Z")
You know the thing about being passive-aggressive is that most people don’t realize they’re doing it. That’s where the passive part comes in. The OP may indeed be sabotaging things. But so is his wife. When my kid was in school all of the local stores, Wal-mart, K-Mart, Target etc. would run out of supplies the day the supply list came out. She sent him to Wal-mart knowing that they didn’t have the paper in question then castigated him for not finding it. She could have told him that she’d had trouble finding it and made it clear that substitution was unacceptable. That might have given him a chance to call around and see who had it. This is a couple who are not working as a team and instead are operating as adversaries. They need to remember that they’re on the same side. I have to agree with all who suggested counseling. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/73 "2005-08-17T14:37:13Z")
I agree, **velvet**. This sounds like two people who are both trying to win. She gets her way, she wins; he gets his way, he wins. We all know what happens to couples like that - nobody wins, especially the kids. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/74 "2005-08-17T15:54:08Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Ok, so I’ll 'fess up, too… I have this problem, too. I’ve worked on controlling it and have gotten much better, but I still end up in tears if I am in a serious argument. I hate it. > > Hate it hate it hate it. Is there a support group for this kind of thing? I’ll make the coffee . . . ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/75 "2005-08-17T15:55:43Z")
> [@auntie em](#): > > Is there a support group for this kind of thing? I’ll make the coffee . . . _sniffle_ Someone cares! _sniffle_ 😃 I’ll join. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/76 "2005-08-17T18:06:09Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > _sniffle_ Someone cares! _sniffle_ > > 😃 I’ll join. I’d join too _wipes tears_, but I can’t read the _sniff_ application. There must be _blows nose_ something in my eye… I really hate it when that happens. Quick poll: what were your parent’s confrontation styles? Mine never yelled- the lower the voices, the madder they were. They never dealt with problems in front of me if they could avoid it. If my dad had to confront me, he would try to get it over with as soon as possible. My mom would start to cry and hug me a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/77 "2005-08-17T18:21:25Z")
> [@velvetjones](#): > > She sent him to Wal-mart knowing that they didn’t have the paper in question then castigated him for not finding it. She could have told him that she’d had trouble finding it and made it clear that substitution was unacceptable. That might have given him a chance to call around and see who had it. It looks like his wife did tell him. I think he went to Wal-Mart to try to help, not because she specifically sent him for the paper. > [@](#): > > “No, I just couldn’t find it and I know you looked before, so I thought I’d get the best I could find.” > > “If you couldn’t find it, I wouldn’t have thought any less of you if you’d just some home and said ‘I couldn’t find it’. Don’t you remember I said I couldn’t find it and that they said it should be coming in soon?” I agree that she should have been very clear that no substitutions were ok. Maybe she is setting him up to fail so she can play martyr, or maybe he really just needs to pay more attention. No matter what, these arguments are definitely blown way out of proportion and it’s time to sit down together and try to find out what is really going on. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/78 "2005-08-17T18:32:12Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > I’d join too _wipes tears_, but I can’t read the _sniff_ application. There must be _blows nose_ something in my eye… > > I really hate it when that happens. Quick poll: what were your parent’s confrontation styles? Mine never yelled- the lower the voices, the madder they were. They never dealt with problems in front of me if they could avoid it. If my dad had to confront me, he would try to get it over with as soon as possible. My mom would start to cry and hug me a lot. Mine yelled, loudly and obnoxiously. My mother never cried (well, barring once, which I’ll detail in a minute), and only rarely showed any emotion. I take directly after my aunt…she is as emotional as me. Her and I get along really well. Recently I wrote her a long, loving letter in which I told her I might have been born of the youngest sister in the family, and adopted by the eldest, but I am truly her daughter (middle sister). She called me. We both ended up crying on the phone. _sniffle_ \*The one incident was when I was putting away the laundry and confused my mother’s underwear with her younger sister’s (who is my bio-mom, but I didn’t know that then). My adopted mom freaked out, crying, yellin, the whole nine yards. Now I kind of understand why, but sheesh, I had no idea what was going on back then! ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/79 "2005-08-17T18:58:13Z")
> [@auntie em](#): > > Is there a support group for this kind of thing? I’ll make the coffee . . . I can bring the tea. I actually find it pretty darn detrimental to my relationship - it’s hard to have serious talks when I just start heaving sobs. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115/80 "2005-08-17T19:01:44Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > I’d join too _wipes tears_, but I can’t read the _sniff_ application. There must be _blows nose_ something in my eye… > > I really hate it when that happens. Quick poll: what were your parent’s confrontation styles? Mine never yelled- the lower the voices, the madder they were. They never dealt with problems in front of me if they could avoid it. If my dad had to confront me, he would try to get it over with as soon as possible. My mom would start to cry and hug me a lot. I am very sensitive to yelling. I wasn’t spanked as a kid, and was yelled at exactly once, by my Nana, who was confused as all hell when she found me still crying hours later–she couldn’t figure out what had happened! So she changed her MO with me (but she yelled her head off at my cousins–who had much thicker skin than I–and I spent my whole childhood wondering why she seemed to hate them so much . . . ). My mom was a fussin’ firecracker (still is), but managed to get her point across and have you quaking in your boots (if that was her desired result) without actually yelling. As for confrontations in front of the kids, my mom purposely argued with my dad in front of us. Her parents never disagreed in front of her or her brothers, and so she thought they just didn’t fight. Then when she got married to my dad, she thought there was something seriously wrong with the marriage because they seemed to disagree so much more than her parents did. Once she figured out the deal, she vowed that she’d let her kids in on the real deal. As a result, my brother told her when he was 13 that he was never getting married, because he didn’t want anyone to fight with, but hey–at least he made an informed decision. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passive-aggressive-or-stupid-or-thoughtless-or/317115.md?page=5)